Combat Engineers

Seth35 SG

Do they also charge in the frontlines as whole battalion ??

beavan SG

negative.

bigballs11 SG

Combat Engineers are strategic asset of any army. Use with care and it's actually a force multipler for the commander. Charge the whole battalion of your most priced asset in your division to frontline fire is the act of an idiot. It's equivalent of putting all your SOF member in the line fire of machine gun Laughing

|-|05| SG

True but there is a few times when an SCE wld be used in battalion strength if not Brigade.In the even of a chemical attack only SCE and armour would be able to function till everyone get's some NBC gear on since it aint stan issue for everyone.

sgdiehard SG

Frontlines fighting units have organic engineers support. SCE specializes in mine/obstacles clearing, bridging and road maintenance in support of divisional sustained offensive. The only time when SCE functions as a battalion is to support a Divisional movement.

If combat engineers have to be deployed as fighting unit in the frontline, then the frontline is the last line, the alamo.

tankee1981 SG

Originally posted by |-|05|:

True but there is a few times when an SCE wld be used in battalion strength if not Brigade.In the even of a chemical attack only SCE and armour would be able to function till everyone get's some NBC gear on since it aint stan issue for everyone.

I am not sure about the part in bold...i am very sure that the SM1 is not capable in fighting in chemical environment. Only only vehicle which i think is capable is the new Leo2A4 which is still not fully inducted yet. Very Happy

gd4u SG

Hmm, i seriously never heard of SCE at Brigade level ...

tankee1981 SG

Cool

gd4u SG

Dun Cool me leh, I got a feeling after the Bn level, the whole formation will be considered instead liao ...

Shotgun SG

SCE at a brigade strength?

There so many types of Combat Engineers, the Field, Armored, Bridging, CBRE etc.

To field a Brigade strength of Combat Engineers for a single type would have to include a lot of NS Battalions.

SCE at battalion strength, yes. Definitely. Especially when it comes to bridging. These guys are not organic to any Division, but directed at the discretion of much higher ups.

khaiseng SG

in SG context, we probably have enough Bn to form a engineer brigade but do we have a formation that we can support at that level? considering that in our doctrine, a company of engineers will support a Brigade, a Bde of engineers can support a army group already.

engineers hardly practice any fire movement exercise, defence exercise maybe got, like setting up fortified defence. the only place where we will be on the frontline will probably be just across the causeway

all bridges will go under GS war as strategic assets if i'm not wrong. which ever div getting what assets will depend on the AO and its probably in plan somewhere

am i revealing too much? i'm just a dry bridge engineer, counting down to my ROD soon. hehe

|-|05| SG

Well in the event of war then there wld be NS Bns.
Anyway each div has their own CE and then we have the rest of the CE like AETC,Bridging,Construction,CBRE blah blah so the independant CE's will function as a Bn no?

Anyway I'll do the same as tankee and Cool haha there are somethings that arent well known Confused

bigballs11 SG

Each infrantry brigade has their own organic company of field engineer (30 SCE category), deploy at the discreet of the brigade commander. Each infantry battalion has their own organic platoon of pioneer infantry that is permanently attached to support battalion movement. In fact all the infranty has NBC gear and trained to handle such situation.

Shotgun SG

Not true for Bridging Engineers if I am not mistaken. Amphibious bridging is not under any division.

Its not wise to let ppl know which division is gonna go for the "Wetter" route.

Seth35 SG

Btws what is the M60 Patton tank you CE’s got for ?

tankee1981 SG

M728 Combat Engineer Vehicle (CEV)
The M728 is a Combat Engineer Vehicle used by engineering units for construction of defensive positions and demolition of enemy fortifications. It is designed to provide maximum ballistic protection for the crew. The vehicle is heavily armed, being a basic M60A1 tank, modified to provide a mobile and maneuverable weapon or combat support of ground troops and vehicles. It is equipped with a hydraulically operated dozer blade mounted to the front of the hull. A winch and boom are mounted to the turret for lifting, carrying and winching. The vehicle is used for breaching, obstacle removal, transportation of demolition teams, and pioneering operation. This has the same 152mm gun as the M551 Sheridan. A crew of four operates this vehicle, with the power train and chassis being the same as the M60A3. It saw combat service in Vietnam and Desert Storm.

DESCRIPTION: The M728 CEV is a full-tracked armored vehicle which consists of a basic M60A1 tank with a hydraulically operated debris blade, a 165mm turret mounted demolition gun, a retractable boom and a winch. The demolition gun may be elevated or depressed for use at various ranges up to 925 meters and is coaxial mounted with a 7.62mm machine gun. A .50 caliber machine gun is cupola mounted.

A mine clearing rake was specially designed and fabricated to be a "tool" for the CEV in Desert Storm. The full width rake allows the CEV to clear minefields in non-cohesive, granular soils. The Mine Clearing Rake is a V-shaped tined plough that performs countermine activities by lifting buried mines with its tines and pushing them to the side as it moves. Attached to a M728 CEV or M60 tank via a Dozer Kit, the Mine Clearing Rake also utilizes an aluminum skid shoe, which protrudes from the front of the tines and allows the rake to maintain a consistent plowing. It clears a path measuring 180 inches wide, accommodating heavy tanks and other armored vehicles. The devices operations are limited to soft sandy soil. Additional features are that it weighs 4000 pounds, and is easily assembled and installed.

STATUS: The CEV was placed in service in 1965 with a total of 291 vehicles. Currently improvements for the operations readiness are being implemented. These improvements will ensure that the CEV remains a valuable asset until replacement vehicles are fielded. During Operation Desert Storm the CEV proved unable to manoeuvre with the heavy force due to the inability of the M60 chassis and power train to keep pace with the MIA1. They also had difficulties associated with maintaining an obsolete, low-density piece of eqpt. Many manoeuvre units simply left the CEV behind rather than slow their manoeuvre. Such was the case with the Mine Rake mounted on the CEV. Commanders planned for their use as a part of the deliberate breaching operation, but left them behind once they began the pursuit and exploitation phase of the operation. Commanders were unanimous in their opinion that the engineerr force needs M1 chassis' for heavy breaching and gap crossing equipment.

EMPLOYMENT CONCEPT: The CEV provides Engineers in the forward combat area with a versatile, armor-protected means of performing mobility tasks under hostile fire. Tasks include reduction of roadblocks and obstacles; filling craters, ditches and short dry gaps; limited construction of combat trails; construction of obstacles; and clearing of rubble and debris.

BASIS OF ISSUE: The CEV is issued two per Engineer Company in the Heavy Division, two per Engineer Company in Corps (Mechanized), three per Engineer Company in Armor/Infantry Separate Brigades and three per Engineer Company in the Armored Cavalry Regiment.

TRAINING/PERSONNEL: The U.S. Army Engineer Center provides training during Advanced Individual Training for the Track Vehicle Crewman (MOS 12F), Basic Non-Commissioned Officer Course, Advanced Non-Commissioned Officer Course, Engineer Officer Basic Course and Engineer Officer Advanced Course. At the unit level, training will be conducted on the actual piece of equipment as on-the-job training. Training Extension Course lessons are also available for refresher training at the unit level.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m728.htm

khaiseng SG

from what i hear, the first batch of CEV came in all rusty.

anyway the CEV is one of the MLC 60 class equipment that we have operated for decades and its very often used for testing of new bridges to see if they are capable of taking MLC 60

sgdiehard SG

I can tell you that this is not true. Our CEV and AVLB were not second hand.

sgf SG

Bridging engineers do not come under any division. 100% chop, stamp & confirmed.

spencer99 SG

I think what the posters is trying to ask if whether the existing combat Engineers Bns deploy organically as a unit or are they sub-divided into sub-units during operations...

I understand that at some point in WW2, there is a standing order in the German Army that combat engineers cannot be deployed as "back-up" infrantry as they are gauged as valuable assets!

First In, Last Out!