Employment of phosphorus hand grenade

last SG · 2007-12-06T16:25:59+00:00

the thermite grenade will burn like a normal fire (actually not normal since you cant put it off) and its shockwave will smash lung tissue.

aikchongtan SG

Any idea whether this is issued and employed by SAF? Can't recall whether we will be issued with thermite or phosphorus hand grenade during actual operation as part of infantry section commander's weapon load. Pass out from SAFINCO for ages...

Phosphorus hand grenades were widely employed in WWII and in modern conflicts. It seems to be a highly versatile and effective weapon, employed in antipersonnel and other roles.

Anybody used this weapon before? What's the drill and safety precautions to observe? Tactical settings for antipersonnel, smoke-screen, incendiary ...?

Alphapunk2 SG

oh ya!! when ar?

Xcert SG

deployment.

tankfanatic SG

if Mr Phosforus want to be emplyed by SAf ..he must fill in the 415-a in triplicate….please proceed your enquiry to the nearest recruitment centre…..next..

tankee1981 SG

I think that such weapons are already been phased out as i think they are considered by some to be *chemical weapons and unstable and very dangerous during transport and storage.

I am not sure about the phosphorus grenades but i can say for sure that SM1 used to be armed with WP rounds but not any more. Old ammo tech guys are very relieved by that! Very Happy

*Reference:

White phosphorus weapons are controversial today because of its potential use against civilians, which, for countries who have ratified Protocol III of the Convention Against Certain Conventional Weapons. While the Chemical Weapons Convention does not designate WP as a chemical weapons, various unofficial groups consider it to be one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus

chino65 SG

As a recruit in the early 80s, we were shown a range of dummy hand grenades during grenade lesson.

Among the range of grenades was a WP canister which was identical to a smoke grenade in shape and size. Except the colour was very different but I can't remember the colour.

This was early 80s.

I posted this info before but just about everyone here says this simply cannot be true because they weren't shown one as well.

But just because not everyone has seen one doesn't mean WP don't exist in our arsenal.

No one showed me the Centurion MBT during my entire service. But that doesn't mean they don't exist.

So I leave it for your own judgement. WP aren't banned by any rules as far as I know. It is simply not something you publicise.

chino65 SG

Even during WW2 WP grenades weren't routine issue like the frag. I think they were only brought out as a last resort weapon. Like the flamethrower. It's probably when they think the defence is gonna be stubborn then they'll bring out the WP and flamethrower.

I read that thermite grenades were often used in Korea to disable arty pieces to prevent enemy capturing them intact.

chino65 SG

In Korean War, the PLA were fanatical and die by the thousands charging machine gun positions.

But they feared and hated the US WP hand grenades.

An account described them releasing some US POWs with a message to bring back to their friends.

"Any US troop captured with WP grenades, will suffer having the WP grenade stuffed into his trousers, and the grenade ignited."

Basically, the PLA consider WP to be inhuman and was trying to discourage US troops from using them.

Ponders SG

my WO tell me the official use for WP grenade is to destroy sensitive electronic equipment as last resort because the WP "eats" into metal.

equlus84 SG

I think such weapons are not widely distributed among SAF troops, bcos if this weapon is deployed without caution, ur own troops may be at the receiving end of the firey fiesta. But ST recently designed the 40mm EBX rds, I wonder did SAF procure sure grenades.

These flame weapons in my impression, is very impt as our threat environment are getting more and more urbanized. The smoke fom thes pyrotechnics can be used to flush out enemies hidden in tunnels and confined areas.

tankee1981 SG

40mm Enhanced Blast Explosive Round S409

The Enhanced Blast Explosive (EBX) rounds improves lethality and is effective in enclosed spaces such as tunnels, buildings and field fortifications.

http://www.stengg.com/CoyCapPro/detail.aspx?pdid=276

wonderamazement SG

Green? I mean like those armour veh interior that kinda green.

tankee1981 SG

Olive Green? Very Happy

seachfun SG

In 2G SAF, phosphorus grenade is part of the op ammo. Can't remember come with how many color, for sure yellow is one of them.

chino65 SG

Actually not true.

The SFG (Standard Fragmentation Grenade) probably has a wider blast/injury radius than WP. Which makes the SFG more useful, which is why it is the standard issue among troops.

The WP is more of a terror weapon. The phosphrous is like molten lava and burns into flesh upon contact. And pouring water cannot extinguish the burning phosphrous. So victims of WP will be screaming for a very very long time and if they survive the injuries will still be horrific.

chino65 SG

I wonder if the WP was made by (then) CIS?

It was a theory lesson and the instructors didn't let us examine them up close.

...

The Sec IC would be the only one issued with a signal colour smoke canister.

But WP and normal colourless smoke can be distributed to the men.

In the 80's our old-style webbing can hold only 4 SFG. So the canister rounds will have to be hooked via the handle/lever on the "D" ring of the webbing straps. Very easy to lose. Glad they got rid of that useless webbing. The 90's IDF-style webbing was a HUGE improvement. But again, no room for canister grenades. You can put it in the pouch behind but hard to reach.

...

I once threw a smoke grenade while preparing to assault uphill. The damn thing hit a branch and rolled back down the hill towards us and our position got smoked-out.

Sad but funny.

aikchongtan SG

White Phosphorus (WP)
White Phosphorus (WP), known as Willy Pete, is used for signaling, screening, and incendiary purposes. White Phosphorus can be used to destroy the enemy's equipment or to limit his vision. It is used against vehicles, petroleum, oils and lubricants (POL) and ammunition storage areas, and enemy observers. WP can be used as an aid in target location and navigation. It is usually dispersed by explosive munitions. It can be fired with fuze time to obtain an airburst. White phosphorus was used most often during World War II in military formulations for smoke screens, marker shells, incendiaries, hand grenades, smoke markers, colored flares, and tracer bullets.

The Battle of Fallujah was conducted from 8 to 20 November 2004 with the last fire mission on 17 November. The battle was fought by an Army, Marine and Iraqi force of about 15,000 under the I Marine Expeditionary Force (IMEF). US forces found WP to be useful in the Battle of Fallujah. "WP proved to be an effective and versatile munition. We used it for screening missions at two breeches and, later in the fight, as a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes when we could not get effects on them with HE. We fired shake and bake missions at the insurgents, using WP to flush them out and HE to take them out. ... We used improved WP for screening missions when HC smoke would have been more effective and saved our WP for lethal missions."

White phosphorus is not banned by any treaty to which the United States is a signatory. Smokes and obscurants comprise a category of materials that are not used militarily as direct chemical agents. The United States retains its ability to employ incendiaries to hold high-priority military targets at risk in a manner consistent with the principle of proportionality that governs the use of all weapons under existing law. The use of white phosphorus or fuel air explosives are not prohibited or restricted by Protocol II of the Certain Conventional Weapons Convention (CCWC), the Convention on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Certain Conventional Weapons which may be Deemed to be Excessively Injurious or to have Indiscriminate Effects.

Shotgun SG

I'm glad we were "advised" not to throw grenades uphill. =D

M203 up!

aikchongtan SG

Hand grenade must be employed in careful manner after the environment has been assessed.

In a book that I read about the British SAS training for deployment in Malayan jungle during the Confrontation, a British officer lost one eyes after throwing a frag grenade in a jungle setting. The grenade rebound off branches...lost one eye. Undaunted, he tried the same foolish move again after discharge from hospital. Guess what, lost his remaining eye; blind in both eyes.

Morale of the story, don't anyhow throw grenade.

aikchongtan SG

M203 grenade round must also be launched with caution when there are overhead canopy. During one live firing in my time, a M203 round launched hit the rifle sling when it exit from the tube. The gunner was showered with curry-powder. Launched a M203 live-round in thick jungle vegetation without care, the round may hit some vegetation in air before it land on intended target. If this mishap take place at 15-20m arming distance, the gunner will be hit.

Similarly, mortar platoon site and face their tubes carefully when there are jungle canopy.

Jungle fighting present it's unique challenges; urban fighting presents it's unique challenges. All conventional and non-conventional fighting presents challenges to the fighting men.