Singapore plans multiple rocket launcher, IFV acquisitions

last SG · 2007-08-10T09:20:51+00:00

I think they’ll be going for a wheeled one…

Arapahoe SG

Does it mean that SAF will have new artillery unit ?

storm_freaky13 SG

damn i want to join arty.

Looks like SG will be buying lots of toys. Real increase in firepower in a short time span.

4SIR's training in Alaska with the Stryker brigade is already a mega hint of a future mechanised infantry.

Arapahoe SG

MLRS is another mile stone for SAF.

When the first 155 self propel Artillery row into 20SA I was at Charles battery line. Looking at the pcs of equipment it was like Wow remote control knot, gunners are smiling because presumably they will have easier life in the field.

The gun was sent to Thailand for test fire. After 3 months it came back all the knot gone missing.
Laughing

tankfanatic SG

sigh…not long time ago we bang the malay for having the astross….i wonder how hard they will laugh when they hear this news…

tankfanatic SG

Astro II unguided rocket is now considered as obsolete, high CEP, it is tactically useless at above 40km( as stated by Russian Military scientist), just look at Hizboallah's unguided rocket against Israel , nothing strategically impt was hit even after thousands of rockets.

can compare the astross with katyusha meh?

More Firepower For Malaysian Army
18/06/2007 - TEMPUR JUN 2007

The Malaysian Armys Royal Artillery Regiment (RAD) will, by 2009, be able to raise its second Battalion equipped with the Keris Astros 2 (Artillery Saturation Rocket System) multiple launch rocket system (MLRS), thanks to the Ministry of Finance recently giving the green light to the Ministry of Defence (MINDEF) to conclude contractual negotiations with the original equipment manufacturer Avibras Aerospacial SA of Brazil. The Gemas-based 51st Battalion of the RAD, known as 51 RAD (and attached to the Malacca-based 3 Division), is currently equipped with 18 Keris Astros 2 MLRS launchers that were ordered in November 2000 and delivered 20 months later. The contract, worth RM791.92 million, included the supply of 1,000 SS-30 30km-range rockets, 224 SS-60 60km-range rockets, 576 SS-80 80km-range rockets along with SS-09 training rockets. The to-be-inked contract for equipping the new Battalion52 RADis valued at RM950 million. The Astros 2 MLRS includes a fleet of vehicles comprising the Universal Multiple Launcher (AV-LMU) capable of firing five kinds of rockets with different calibers and diameters; Ammunition Supply Vehicle (AV-RMD) for resupplying the AV-LMU and carrying two complete loads for each launcher; Avibras AV-VBL (Viaturas Blindadas Leves) 4 x 4 light armoured vehicles using the command and control vehicle/fire-control system (AV-VCC) to provide the Battalion-level command with coordination and direction of firing missions for up to 3 Astros 2 Batteries; Mobile Workshops for electronic and mechanic field maintenance of the system; and an Electronic Fire-Control Unit (AV-UCF) for facilitating the procedures of fire direction using a tracking radar and ballistics computer. A typical Astros 2 Battery configuration comprises six AV-LMU Universal Multiple Launchers, six AV-RMD Ammunition Supply Vehicles together with an AV-UCF Fire Control Unit. The AV-VCC Command and Control Vehicle/Fire-Control Unit together with two mobile workshop vehicles are stationed at the Battalion headquarters. The 127mm SS-30 rocket can be loaded with 32 rounds per launcher and has a range between 9km and 30km. The 300mm SS-60 and SS-80 rockets can be loaded with four rounds per launcher, and has a range between 20km and 80km.

The Malaysian Army currently has 16 artillery Regiments (medium field artillery and air defence), each with three Batteries. While 10 Regiments are equipped with 105mm pack howitzers, two RegimentsGemas-based 21 and 22 RADare equipped with 28 DENEL/LIW-built 155mm/45-calibre G-5 Mk2000 towed howitzers and 12 BAE Systems-built FH-70 155mm 39-calibre towed howitzers. Future plans call for re-equipping two existing artillery Regiments with truck-mounted, lightweight, motorised 155mm/52-calibre howitzers. Systems already believed top have been offered include BAE Systems/SWS Defences FH-77BWL52 Archer...

SpecOps87 SG

How about investment in equipment to intercept such weapons?

<Precious> SG

Waste of public money! Evil or Very Mad

LazerLordz SG

On the surface, maybe.

If you're in defense policymaking, you'll take those words back real fast when you understand why this is not a luxury but a need.

wonderamazement SG

Pegasus is wheeled! Laughing But wheeled ones are considerably more agile? Launch liao can faster scoot off... Thought tracked ones can provide more mobility over rough land but there ain't much of it in sg? Wink

gary1910 SG

Read this old thread below carefully, there are quote from many link that dead now, basically unguided rocket will have minimum CEP of 1% of range, I heard there was rumour that Astros actually has CEP of 3%, anyway CEP of an unguided rocket is at best at 1%, this is as far as such technology could go.

And at range above 40 km, unguided rocket will be tactically useless as mentioned in a Russian magazine by a Russian rocket scientist and I quote:

Firing small- and large-caliber rockets featuring traditional aeroballistic configurations and with mean deviations from the target of about ~1%X of the firing range and a consistency of up to 1/150 becomes ineffective at a range in excess of 40 km.

I did a calculation of rocket with CEP of 1% at range at 89km, it could be off target as far as 3560m!!!!

So does sound more like katyusha?!? Laughing

Read this thread for more info:
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=65643&page=0

In fact I predicted then that unguided rocket will be obsolete soon due to emerging guided technology for MLRS.

Now everyone is going for trajectory correction or/and GPS guided rocket/missile, the US army already stop using M26 unguided rocket, only GMLRS and ATACM.

In fact in Iraq, GMLRS is nicknamed as "60km Sniper"( not exactly true becos range is above 70km) with CEP of only 5m, it could precisely hit insurgent targets in the middle of the city with little or no collateral damage.

That is the future trend of MLRS and SAF want it in their inventory, land based strategic precision strike capability!!!

tankee1981 SG

Actually w the Primus is still under going testing, i asked a Arty spec which came to my camp together with the then yet to be revealed Primus. He told me that we already have multiple rocket launchers at that time which is around 2002.

So what i am thinking is that this is the same scenario as the Tempest-Leopard case. We already have such assets just that now we are announcing the replacements. This i because Malaysia have already gotten theirs so we can't be accused of starting an arms race or threatening anyone. Very Happy

chino65 SG

So some are suggesting that instead of a battlefield MLRS role, we're likely to use ours more as single (i.e. BIG) rocket in a more "strategic" role?

As in "you bomb my capital, I bomb your capital".

A bit like how the Iraqis kept firing SCUDS at Israel?

gary1910 SG

Must see video.

Iraqi insurgent sniper meet US army "60km Sniper"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RjpbFlOHFps&mode=related&search=

storywolf SG

Using Pegasus to compare is comparing pistol to rifle like !!!

Hello Pegasus is wheeled because it is mostly air-lifted by heli !!!

tankee1981 SG

Taking into consideration that Singapore is a tiny nation state, any acquisition of Multiple Launched Rocket systems will immediately transform into a strategic asset. Very Happy

tankee1981 SG

HIMARS

http://www.missilesandfirecontrol.com/our_products/firesupport/HIMARS/product-HIMARS.shtml

I think it is likely that we will integrate his HIMARS system onto our existing 5- tonners, should we eventually choose HIMARS. Very Happy

gary1910 SG

Not excatly, depending on range for example GMLRS at range above 70km will be more like alternate CAS, ATACM depending on range could also use against strategic impt target for example enemy ADS , command post etc , if they are close enough.

More like alternative to JDAM and other airborne PGM.

tankfanatic SG

ok i'll read it..too bad the other thread were locked.

And at range above 40 km, unguided rocket will be tactically useless as mentioned in a Russian magazine by a Russian rocket scientist and I quote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Firing small- and large-caliber rockets featuring traditional aeroballistic configurations and with mean deviations from the target of about ~1%X of the firing range and a consistency of up to 1/150 becomes ineffective at a range in excess of 40 km.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

this is an analysis for a ww2 katyusya rocket!

I did a calculation of rocket with CEP of 1% at range at 89km, it could be off target as far as 3560m!!!!

So does sound more like katyusha?!?

no.....

In fact I predicted then that unguided rocket will be obsolete soon due to emerging guided technology for MLRS.

i dont think it will become obsolete. the only reason guided technology were emerging for MLRS is because to reduce the collateral damage done by the previous saturation (i emphasized this) MLRS. If the system were in the hand of a nation that dont give a damn about collateral will definately use this system.

While i think you are right about the the accuracy of one rocket...please bare in mind that the astros can ripple fire a salvo 4 rounds of SS-60/SS-80 rocket, caliber 300mm (which can cater for a bigger cluster munitions warhead) and has a range between 20km and 80km.

Since the the command and control vehicle/fire-control system (AV-VCC) can coordinate 3 batteries of Astros2 (six AV-LMU Universal Multiple Launchers per batteries) to saturate (i emphasized this again) an area of 1 square kilometers. Which mean 108 cluster munitions warhead in 1 salvo (and they can fire riple salvo and by using the computer fire control can set it to fall at the same time), i cant see the logic in saying the Astross 2 as unaccurate and obsolete.

Now everyone is going for trajectory correction or/and GPS guided rocket/missile, the US army already stop using M26 unguided rocket, only GMLRS and ATACM.

yeah and they were the only one can deployed it in large number

In fact in Iraq, GMLRS is nicknamed as "60km Sniper"( not exactly true becos range is above 70km) with CEP of only 5m, it could precisely hit insurgent targets in the middle of the city with little or no collateral damage.

exactly ! you are right...to reduce the collateral damage.

That is the future trend of MLRS and SAF want it in their inventory, land based strategic precision strike capability!!!

good for us

Arthas79 SG

sigh...not long time ago we bang the malay for having the astross....i wonder how hard they will laugh when they hear this news...

Maybe as jealous as you are seeing as such that we will be getting better stuffs as usual.

But seriously, the arguments `are' about the relative inaccuracy of the Astross which is still a fact. They are unguided rockets. And Himars and other newer western systems will carry guided rockets. The reason why the MAF got the Astross is to reduce the huge gap or lead Singapore has in terms of artillery systems. Singapore`s aritllery arsenal is just massive. Just read your own article you posted silly. It is pointless to compare Singapore and Malaysia. Priorities differ and honestly, Singapore is in a different league completely.

I agree with many of the astute comments made by many posters here. We do not need another run of the mill artillery delivery system. The Himars, etc if acquired will be carrying precision guided rockets or missiles; and most likely from Israel.

Arthas79 SG

Malaysia would use her Astross as normal artillery systems given the relative lack in artillery systems. Singapore does not have this problem at all since we have a huge arsenal of artillery systems which can do that job. Add that to our huge air-force which can bomb with impunity.

The problem with unguided rockets is that the latter`s accuracy gets more inaccurate the further they go. If you want to destroy strategic targets and hardened targets, you would go for a unitary war-head and not cluster munitions. But that does not mean the GMLRs cannot be configured to carry cluster munitions. Which would want? A rocket which would go off- tangent and hit something esle or an accurate one?

Good luck to them killing of thier own people and destroying thier own buildings if they are not worried about collateral damage.

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