Sys failure in ADF aviation ?

last SG · 2007-06-27T21:05:43+00:00

AUSTRALIAN fighter pilots will be taught to land on aircraft carriers for the first time in 25 years. A select handful of Royal Australian Air Force instru...

lionnoisy SG

Bad cultures are very hard to be changed.

i HAVE MENTIONED SOME WHERE that there is system failure in aussie armed force.

Navy chiefs rebuked over crash, * Dan Box, * June 22, 2007--http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21947559-31477,00.html

..The 1700-page report demanded "major cultural change" at all levels to improve safety, after identifying systematic failures, "which are probably common to some degree across the ADF aviation community".......

2.
An indictment of shortcut culture, * COMMENT, Patrick Walters, * June 22, 2007--http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21947554-31477,00.html

...The abject failure to adhere to standard procedures for aircraft maintenance and quality assurance led directly to the tragedy on Nias island two years ago...

Somehow, alarm bells failed to ring up the line that the sub-standard practices being followed at 817 squadron had become routine even in times of low operational tempo.

The board of inquiry report noted that "senior commanders and managers did not fully understand their responsibilities for airworthiness and there was some confusion with regard to the roles and responsibilities of the ADF airworthiness system".....

3.Am I anti Aussie again?Board of Inquiry report---The Board deliberated for almost 20 months, considered evidence from more than 160 witnesses, reviewed 560 exhibits, conducted hearings over 111 days and produced approximately 10,000 pages of transcript.

4.Pl dunt blind saying ausssie is good good or bad bad.

LazerLordz SG

So why Australia again? No other countries to pick on huh?

Sibei eng ah?

CM06 SG

For your love of our country and her citizens, i commend you.

Edited

chanjyj SG

Why condemn him? I think he has taken facts and posted it here, and nt come up with wild opinions based on nothing.

I think people deserve a chance, or we might see plenty of trolls around.

CM06 SG

made it a PM. Sorry to Lionnoisy. SHouldnt condemn someone without knowing the full situation of another when the internet’s at play.

LazerLordz SG

If you guys have followed his postings, you will see that he only criticises Australia and nothing else.

I'm getting highly offended at the way he chooses to illustrate Australia, be it true situation or not. Would you like someone to take potshots at a country which you have ties to?

Go and google his handle. Rolling Eyes

lionnoisy SG

2.The obligations of friends and alliances are help each other
improve.U huys dunt want to say somethings bad about
aussie just because we are Five Power alliance or many
sporean already or going migrate there?

How about i pick on PRC?U guys happy?

3.I am not pick on Aussie.My main aim is give u a lesson.
Aussie IS NOT what you think.......
Dunt just accept the traditional thinking from parents
or your peers that Aussie MUST BE VERY GOOD!!

I am not too generalised that Aussie is bad.
I just expose the truths of certain issue.

Here,many sporean highly regard ADF.
Well,read for yourself how the Board of Inquiry says,bro.

4.Can i repeat again.I just discuss issue by issue.
If u dunt want hear the truths,i cant help.

5.Feel free expose if i lie here.

6.If aussie take defense so lightly,do u think they will
take other issues so seriously?
Do u think they can complete urgently required water
projects on schedule?

7.Hope RSAF can learn a lesson from this disaster.

sgdiehard SG

Why should you be offended if what is said is true. I have much tie with australia, Malaysia, as well as PRC and ROC.

Too many people ignore the negative sides of Malaysia so as not to offend our neighbour. Somebody need to be ready to highlight the plights of minority Chinese and Indians there to give a balanced picture.

In this forum, anybody who uses a big broad brush to paint China black, especially the PRC, will be greeted with loud cheers. Even if the 1.3 billion PRC Chinese are of the same kind, the other Chinese overseas cannot be all that bad. Embarassed There must be somebody to present the other sides of the picture to give a complete picture.

Australia is a great country, but too many sillyporeans went there to run down Singapore. It is good to also know that there are dark sides even in Australia.

Be offended if the wrong pictures are presented. Be sensitive the next time you make assumptions about countries where you have no tie. But if the truth is said, I guess there should be no hard feelings. Smile

LazerLordz SG

See the thing is that Australia does have her flaws, that I will admit readily.

Any damned nation has flaws.

I am very peeved however, that this chap has seen fit to illustrate the flaws of Australia in a method that does not do justice to the merits of Australia.

Simply put, if you've not lived in a place, don't act as if you know so much about that place, or attempt to convince others.

There's more to LN than what he says.Note that he always wants to show people the dark side of Australia, and for what intent? Assuming that we are dumbasses and that he's the next best thing in analysing other nations?

It's juvenile and those who have lived or worked in Australia here will know.

A few things, TS.

1. ADF is not worshipped by Singaporeans as you might hope to think it is.
2. We are not dumb assholes.
3. You have not shown yourself to be capable of rational debate about any shortcomings that may be found in your data.
4. You have admitted that you wish to ultimately drive people away from Australia because you and YOU ALONE have this impression and puerile assumption that we are sheep and that we live, work and play in Australia as ignorant fools.
5. The RSAF does not need your analysis, specious as it is, to help in doctrine or planning. We are far more capable than you think. What makes you think that HD Air Plans or Air Ops require your input or that your heavily one-sided posts about the ADF will influence organisational thinking?
6. Your previous attempt at discussing the Collins-class submarine has shown that your data is outdated and the accusations you have made about the SSK are inaccurate and have been solved eons ago. (Let me see, the DO said that it takes 4 careful steps to get down the hatch of Farncomb)

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

The only person that seems to think the ADF is a superforce seems to be lionnoisy himself, and hence he sees the reason to put it down each and every turn he has.

If you follow his other "threads", like his shooting-himself-in-the-foot one about the Collins, one quickly realizes there's no need to listen to him. And lets not even talk about his threads in Speaker's Corner.

On the other hand, the rest have a far more realistic view of the ADF, it is like any other armed forces, with its own strengths and weakeness. For some reason lionnoisy seems to think we all want to migrate there and fight in the ADF, and hence seeks to bring it down. The only person in delusion is himself.

At the very least, he could improve his english while he is at it. Laughing

But the fact remains at the end of the day, of all the armed forces in the region, the Aussies are probably lower on the list of those that you want to fight.

Prehaps we should start a thread "Sys failure in Sg education?", on lionnoisy's absymal standard of English.

LazerLordz SG

ST,

You know what's the hilarious thing? Maybe I should forward all that he says to the ADF's chief historian, who happens to be one of the Deans in the ADF's Australian Defence College.

The man's probably not worked, talked or even smelt an ADF soldier or an RAN sailor up close, and there he is, thinking he's the best authority on issues like the ADF.

That should spice things up a bit. Laughing

Fingolfin_Noldor SG

Lionnoisy penis too small.

So want to pick on other countries.

I say this sort of citizen isn't worth calling Singaporean.

Exile him to Australia I say.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Yes please, that would make a good read!

Laughing

Joe Black SG

Exile him to Australia, he wont get to live more than 5 minutes there!

lionnoisy SG

If the subject country is PRC,India etc,then more will be happy to hear.

But it is the great Aussie !!Many here cant accept the country they
greatly admire now in this shape.

i discuss issue by issue.I dunt generalise a country.

Pl study the followings to form the picture of Aussie.

Is each incident is isloated case?

Why it happen one followed by another?

1.why it take 10 years to upgrade M113?

2.Patrol fleet docked over fuel defect,againhow can u explain happen again and again.......

3.Aussie (New) heli Seasprites Down!why bought old air frame in the first place?

4.Aussie sub 88 op days a year?--88 OP days a year still a good subs?

NORM IN FIRST WORLD ARMED FORCE?
iF U TELL ME AND SHOW ME THE COMPARSIONS THAT THE ABOVE
are common in first world armed forces,i will shut up.

So many main platforms get problems,how can u fight effectively?

water,water,not every where!
No one invade Aussie.So the not so perfect armed force is still ok.
But i would think if this kind of so so culture exist in other
parts of government,eg water resources.

For most cities in Aussie,current water storge will last till
end of 2008,unless miracle happen!!.

miserable SG

Originally posted by lionnoisy:
If the subject country is PRC,India etc,then more will be happy to hear.

But it is the great Aussie !!Many here cant accept the country they
greatly admire now in this shape.

i discuss issue by issue.I dunt generalise a country.

Pl study the followings to form the picture of Aussie.

Is each incident is isloated case?

Why it happen one followed by another?

1.[b]why it take 10 years to upgrade M113?

2.Patrol fleet docked over fuel defect,againhow can u explain happen again and again.......

3.Aussie (New) heli Seasprites Down!why bought old air frame in the first place?

4.Aussie sub 88 op days a year?--88 OP days a year still a good subs?

NORM IN FIRST WORLD ARMED FORCE?
iF U TELL ME AND SHOW ME THE COMPARSIONS THAT THE ABOVE
are common in first world armed forces,i will shut up.

So many main platforms get problems,how can u fight effectively?

water,water,not every where!
No one invade Aussie.So the not so perfect armed force is still ok.
But i would think if this kind of so so culture exist in other
parts of government,eg water resources.

For most cities in Aussie,current water storge will last till
end of 2008,unless miracle happen!!.[/b]

Maybe our "respected" government should form an invasion army under Lionnoisy and takeover Aussie land. Rolling Eyes

Replace their entire ruling system with our "better and more efficent" system. Increase their gst to help the poor and of course educate Australians that social welfare is a vulgar word that should not be practised. Mr. Green

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Sorry lionnoisy, but we are not interested in starting again on your re-raised issues. The truth is, they have already been DEBUNKED long ago in the respective threads you started. If you can't accept that then too bad, but nobody's biting.

The greater issue I believe, is why lionnoisy's english dunt improve despite issue by issue rised by our government that he admire on improve english skillz.

Laughing

NORM IN FIRST WORLD ARMED FORCE?
iF U TELL ME AND SHOW ME THE COMPARSIONS THAT THE ABOVE
are common in first world armed forces,i will shut up.

Have you ever been in the SAF and seen the number of serious incidents we chock up every year? Or were you hiding below some rock or never served NS before?

Are you forgetting an F-16 we crashed not too long back, as well as the numerous other incidents with our other aircraft that are not talked about?

Forgetting about the troops killed in training accidents recently?

The Aussies have the honestly to talk about their issues, which is more then we can say for ourselves, which operate our armed forces by a "rubber stamp" policy.

And let's look at the yanks, the premier, most well funded, most advanced military in the world. They still have plenty of incidents and issues to debate about from Dragon Skin Armour, Seawolf (cut from one whole class to just three boats), JSF (seriously delayed), next gen small arms (really seriously delayed) to the Stryker.

Frankly you should at the very least read on the recent combat experience of the Australians in Afganistan, in which they made a very good accounting of themselves.

So it seems the only "sys failure", is only in your brain. In you rabid attempt to tar the aussies you forgot to improve your english or logic skills or even failed to do your research.

So yes, I think the facts as they are is that you should shut up.

What can I say?

PWNED! Laughing

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Prehaps if lionnoisy is so confident the ADF is a paper tiger, maybe he should join the taliban and try fighting them.

Laughing

miserable SG

Scarly.......Talibans oso dun want him.....evey day talk cock, sing song.....ask him set up IEP, dunno....fire Rpg,dunno...but come stories like why M14 is better than Ak 47 and how ineffectual the allies armies are . Very Happy

Gedanken SG

Hey hey hey, watch it - we don't want him! Actually, that probably explains the chip on his shoulder. Laughing

I'm sorry, but do we see anybody else calling Australia "the great Aussie"? Hell, those of us who live here don't do that.

As for members here who don't know about lionnoisy's postings, I second LazerLord's advice. Do a search on this forum for lionnoisy and see the number of threads he's started about Australia. Review what he's posted, how he's responded (or failed to respond) to the counterpoints made by more objective members, and then decide for yourselves if he's got a hard-on for Australia-bashing.