Singapore Marines

chino65 SG

How come we do not have a amphibious specialised Marine Corps?

We have heliborne Guards, why not Marines?

Being surrounded by water, you would think this is a natural choice.

Indonesia has Marines if I'm not wrong. And Malaysia also has no Marines, I think.

While our heliborne forces should be pretty well-equipped and organised by now, we seem to be quite basic in the amphibious area, or are we not?

Yes, many of us have been on assault boats but these are quite small scale ops.

Si Geena SG

Marines are, how should we put it mildly, highly offensive element.

They are raised for very specific offensive missions and, in the grand scheme of things, do not fall into MINDEF's operational requirements. It's not too difficult to understand why.

For one thing, Marines will require alot of additional support from the Navy. Our Navy is still pretty much a defensive element, not really capable of projecting beyond our immediate area.

ah san SG

BTW...guards are seaborne too....

Sardaukar SG

No need for Marines.Guards can already fulfill that requirement,as and when needed.

gaoxingdcf SG

Guys,guys, guys… How can u all forget abt NDU???? They can fight from air, land and the sea…

Daniel-Lim SG

Until something is done, there will always be people who say it shouldn't be done, cannot be done, no need etc.

Before the MRT was built, a lot of Singaporeans were against the idea of having a MRT system for many reasons.

Before Leopard A4 announcement was made, a lot of people were saying we don't need one etc.

We don't have Marines now, but there's no reason we definitely won't have them in future.

LazerLordz SG

I believe we will slowly progress to a Marine Corps, perhaps two battalions sized.

It might be a forward joint expeditionary group that can perform disaster recovery and humanitarian work at a very short notice, with organic land and air support elements.

Give or take 5-10 years though. The naval infrastructure is already there, what is left is the manpower requirement and any will to make it happen.

Under a RSMC ( Republic of Singapore Marine Corps ) Orbat, we could see
NDU - Force Recon/Marine SOF

1 Marines - Regular duties
2 Marines - Regular duties.

chino65 SG

The fact that Guards and other infantry units practice amphibious ops is actually a good indication that SAF might eventually field a Marine-type unit.

Instead of the opposite as some see it.

Being a specialilsed Marine unit is a whole different ball game from infantry units doing the occasional sea borne assault by little assault boats.

The Guards will eventually be strictly heliborne like the US Air Cavalry.

Both the Guards and the Marines of the future will constitute our Rapid Deployment Force, which I am guessing will be our doctrine in the near future.

SAF had been preaching Forward Defence for decades. Well, you can't "Forward Defence" if everyone is going by land.

So, a heliborne and seaborne RDF will be the instrument of that policy. Some go by air, some go by sea, and the rest of us go by bus No. 11.

Depending on just heliborne is also not enough cos heliborne forces are not heavy enough.

So you would need to land men and heavy equipment by sea the old-fashioned way.

And that's a Marines job.

SpecOps87 SG

Are the 191 Sqn’s 4 LSTs (RSS Endurance,RSS Resolution,RSS Persistence andRSS Endeavour) ain’t gonna be enough to support the operations of 2 battalions of marines with all their equipment such as tanks, arty etc. Granted that naval gunfire can be used in place of arty, the current LSTs should have no prob. moving 2 Guards BN with all their gear, LSVs, tonners etc…but other then that…more would be required man.

LazerLordz SG

That won't be a problem. ST Marine has actually LPD designs much larger than the LSTs in service now. The SAF turned them down because present usage does not call for such large vessels.

Our technical support is there, what is needed is just doctrinal change and leadership's long-term vision. Oh, and think hovercrafts. We've been playing with them recently.

wonderamazement SG

Since we're getting more influenced by the Americans, i'd say yea... Quite possible... Wink

gaoxingdcf SG

But if SAF decide to have Marine Bn,if NDU is going to be in the part of it,NDU is going to have a large intake of ppl… But the NDU is part of the Navy leh… Muz ask CNV hor…

LazerLordz SG

Marines can come under General Staff. Laughing

|-|05| SG

We’ve got Sea soldiers who do train pretty damn hard and stuff.

chino65 SG

I remember seeing Soviet Union/Russia had some HUGE Mother-of-all hovercrafts in their Marine units. These things can beach themselves and tanks and infantry will pour out of it.

The Western amphibious capabilities pale in scale when compared to those of former Soviet Union.

The quality of western troops are not in doubt, but I am talking about sheer scale.

PLAN uses huge hovercrafts, too. And their Marine units are also very powerful, dreaming about Taiwan all the time.

seancannot SG

our Guard have the AMX 10 deployable from LST leh then LST carries heli … almost marine liao lah

chino65 SG

Oh, here it is. Called the Zubr. Has no equal in the world. At least twice the size of the largest US hovercraft.

57 meters long and 20 meters wide. 130km/hr on water.

Can carry 500 troopers or 10 armoured vehicles. Or more commonly, a mix of men and tanks.

China ordered SIX last year!!!

Its on-board armament is also impressive including a six-barrel chain gun known as the "metal-cutter".

chino65 SG

These trials with Guard units could merely be the early stages of developing fully-specialised amphibious infantry.

spencer99 SG

Typically we only have 6 Bn of Infantry and 2 Bn of Guards that were active.. this is not classified... it is open info, part of SAF's orbat.

To get 2 Bn will of "marines" assuming we strip from existing orbat will mean that we will have

4x SIR
2x "Marines"
2x Guards

Don't you think this is overly "heavy" in terms of Guards and Marines? we have as much Guards and "Marines" as there is SIR.

The strength of the USMC is that they have a very large amphibous (spelling) afloat... and that they USMC have integral air element.... these only make sense if there are large forces.

LazerLordz SG

My assumption is that a new Marines orbat of 2 BNs will consist of elements drawn from all three services to provide the numbers. We need air and naval assets to be organic to the BN to be considered as Marines.

Need not draw down the SIRs. But merely increase recruitment efforts, with Marines to be more regular than conscript based. Of course, conscripts may volunteer to cross over depending on staffing numbers on their parent unit.

I believe for this to succeed, the SAF has to undergo a real paradigm shift in mindset and push towards a larger professional regular Armed Forces.