What's will happen to the Ultimax?

last SG · 2007-04-16T19:53:59+00:00

Ahh...Just STFU. Will you be missed? "serious analyst" ? Like you?

chanjyj SG

Originally posted by moca:
The most interesting development in this area is the USMC's nre requirement for what they term as a IAR - Infantry Automatic Rifle. They were evaluating the Ultimax for this though I don't know the outcome.

This is interesting because this is taking place more than a decade after they have adopted the M249 as a SAW. Perhaps they are now finally realizing that that the M249 really no more than a GPMG firing 5.56mm. A S.A.W. IT IS NOT.

[/b]

The M249 got chosen.. because of.. ahem. Politics

moca SG

Blast from the past..
The real SAWs from WW2 or earlier:

However, nearly all the examples here weigh 8kg and above - empty.

Even the L86 LSW, M249, IMI Negev weighs around or above 7kg empty.

The Ultimax weighs 4.9 kg empty, 6.8 kg with loaded 100 rds mag. Whew!!! That's why I love the Ultimax.

moca SG

No, that's why I said it is interesting. This evaluation I am talking about is happening recently.

A RE-EVALUATION if you prefer...

moca SG

Our Ultimax was not meant to use only 30-round mags.

The ability to use 30-round mag as an OPTION was what made the Ultimax fit perfectly into our logistic system.

Still, a SAW that uses 30 round mag is far from useless.

In the case of the Ultimax, it provides accurate automatic fire using 30 or 100-round mags. This fire support is something that neither the M-16, SAR-21 or any other assault rifle in current inventories are capable of.

dork3d SG

Me like firing Ultimax as a SAW during exercises...

Still remembered its lightweightness and ability to sustain accuracy during continuous firing, and of course the low recoil that me even tried to fire with the butt resting on my nose tip...

If me were given a choice to choose, me would still choose Ultimax as my ultimate SAW...

WiNtEr'SkiLL SG

as a saw ? burst fire ?

CM06 SG

Yes burst. Multiple burst = chains heh

Our's accurate enough with tracers you dont need to spray and drag all over like a hose.

And i'm sure our ultimax is lighter than 4.9k. As far as i remember holdiing it it's even lighter than m-16. I may be wrong....

storm_freaky13 SG

what about the Mk.46?
since the plastic ammo carrier is not as cumbersome. maybe this is not a bad option. Well its still a m249. but its weight is slightly heavier than the ultimax.

Maybe STK will completely build a new SAW from scratch. Seems the best thing to do.

CM06 SG

when a rifle is heavy when loaded it's not the problem of the magazine being heavy.... it's the -number of rounds- that makes it really much heavier.

Our Ultimax may not be the best in the world...but it's close enough! In my opinion anyway.

Hope STK will retain everything except change the bolt area to accept SAR21 mags instead ,IF they want to have polymer mag for every weapon.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

The Ultimax is a cool weapon... it is supposedly so precise that it can be modified to serve as an ad-hoc sniper rifle, that some armed forces have modified it to serve in that role.

I say the coolest thing that ST can do will be to design a new SAW from scratch using all the strong points and the lessons learnt from the Ultimax.

They can call it the Ultimax 2 Twisted Evil

LazerLordz SG

That should be the Mk3A. The butt is made of a lighter polymer, and it has a removable barrel.

deathscythe99 SG

I still think that the design, weight of the old SAWs (eg MK3) could be kept, and adjustments made s.t. the SECTION can pass ammo around Smile

chanjyj SG

My bad. Wow. I think the US Marines are least influenced by politics compared to the other arms of their armed forces.

beavan SG

do not think this can happen anymore. magazine problem.

necten SG

Was a Saw Gunner, using the MK3 with that quick barrel xchange...

Advantages
========
1) Lightweight (though the distribution of weight made it rather an awkward weapon, frontal heavy, rear light) Soldiers that arent physcially strong may have problems with this weapon in terms of wt.; though its sure as hell ais lighter when compared to other 5.56 LMG.

2) Virtually JAM FREE. In live firing exercises, or rather in my 2 years in NSF, i didnt even encountered a live firing jam at all!

3) Low RPM... 400-600 rpm. Pretty low when compared to othe european models... I believe a higher rate of fire is disadvantageous. 1)You burn your magazine clip too fast. 2)Higher INaccuracy. 3) Barrel heats up too fast.

Quick short bursts will get the job done. 3-4 secs bursts. A 30round mag will last about just 10--15 secs. Guess thats the 100rnds mags is for, though never used it before..

4) Robust made, pretty darn accurate, one of the better weapons the ST have made...

Disadvantages
===========

1) Fucking ball gunpowder! Making it so hard to clean the weapon! Luckily the SAW is virtually JAM free even when dirty.... Ok la, even the SAR/M16 uses this stupid gunpowder... The ARMY should switch to IMR...

2) Weight distribution balance problems for the weaker Soldier.

I would take this weapon any day over any weapon currently in the SAF....

In short, RELIABLE...

Hmm where's that mk84 stoner

moca SG

I had one very bad double-feeding during live firing. The jam took the instructors armed with screwdrivers 15 minutes to clear.

The Ultimax weight was no problem even for reservist infantrymen in my 2 PDF unit.

Actually, I think the Ultimax can be improved in terms of robustness.

The co.cking handle is especially flimsy.

I also think that the barrel on the standard issue can be slightly shorter. Right now it isw a full 21-inch. Something 18-inch might be enough.

soulwinner SG

Wait and see..

davechng SG

I think having a Squad automatic weapon and limiting it to a 30 rd mags is pure dumb! the ability to give good support base and a support weapons need a sound weapon system with a good feeding base! so far non can replace a good belt fed!! our U100 has the ability to do but the feeding system of the 100 rd is flawed. U cannot load the drum manually unless having special machinery and it is unreliable in the field. We can see all the drum system that did not work as well like the Beta-C mag!

Having 30 rder although is lighter loses its full potential as a SAW... As you can see all the major army adopting good and sound SAW like the Negev, M249 etc etc! all uses a proven belt fed system! Even the spec ops chose to use such system! currently FN came out with teh M248 which is the SAW in 7.62! but in a lighter package than the GPMG or their M240B!

they should find a good replacement like the M249 or some newer belt fed!

DaveC!

CM06 SG

The long barrel is one reason why it's so accurate dude....
The longer the barrel for two weapon of same calibre the more accurate and more powerful.

Our SAW has no problems now.
It just faces a Magazin issue should everything go Sar21.

In redesign, it's the same old belt-fed vs mag issue for any other SAW.

I suspect, production of SAr21 variants will offer more insights to designing an upgraded Ultimax 2. Hehe.

DarthBart SG

Belt feed == Complication?

You'll have more parts for the belt mechanism
I believe the good thing about the Ultimax is it's simplicity
When you strip it, you'll go: "Huh? Just like that?"

The bad thing about the Ultimax is the catch for the butt... I lost it once and saw a few guy losing it also...
And its too dang long for a short guy like me also... Was cursing and swearing when bashing through vegetation...

« Previous Page Next Page »