Lesson for Israel

last SG · 2006-07-30T21:41:16+00:00

The IDF failed this time round because they were conceited , they have refused bunker busting bomb from US thinking their own technology are superior , they...

Paladin SG

From my point of view.. the Israeli has seriously underestimated the Hezbollah.
Look at the damages in the city of Haifa.. were the Israeli prepared? Hell no..

I've read that the IDF had conducted thousands of air raids against the Hezbollah and till yesterday I still read reports on rockets being fired into northen Israel.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3279888,00.html

IMHO chances of Israel accomplishing their objective is getting slimmer and slimmer as the days go by.

tiggersgd SG

ur language sux. if u cant show me the other position's vids then what kind of balance is that media's opinion based on? i would say its bias and may even suggest that it has been doctored.

u r the one that showed proof thru the vid (israelis injuring innocent) above izzit? then all i'm asking is u show the other side of the vids...the vids where innocent israelis are being bombed and killed in even more vicious ways. u dun have any?? y am i not surprised.

n y r u so pissed? are u on grass as well? Laughing i think so...wahahahahahaha. if i even want to invent anything, it will be a clone for myself. Cool

n pls dun go around showing one sided stories. u are a sad case of uncivilised (in terms of ur language) n of ignorance and arrogance.

wait? sure, let's all wait n see. duh?!!!

MobyDog SG

Originally posted by tiggersgd:

ur language sux. if u cant show me the other position's vids then what kind of balance is that media's opinion based on? i would say its bias and may even suggest that it has been doctored.

What are you - communist ? Does Israel news reports things the way you suggested.. of course not. If so, you rhetorics is just a cheap shot.

Doctored ??? I can simply use this word on almost all news, videos and photos to counter any arguments and comments. It's simply unreasonable on your part.

u r the one that showed proof thru the vid (israelis injuring innocent) above izzit? then all i'm asking is u show the other side of the vids...the vids where innocent israelis are being bombed and killed in even more vicious ways. u dun have any?? y am i not surprised.

What logic would that be ? Why should I contradict myself ??

The Israeli's have always claimed the moral high grounds in most of their actions and waste no time in airing any Israeli's death..

With little efforts you can find them yourself all over the net... and that's thing I'm talking about. I'm giving another side of the things... and in effect, that's makes me bias.

n y r u so pissed? are u on grass as well? Laughing i think so...wahahahahahaha. if i even want to invent anything, it will be a clone for myself. Cool

n pls dun go around showing one sided stories. u are a sad case of uncivilised (in terms of ur language) n of ignorance and arrogance.

wait? sure, let's all wait n see. duh?!!!

Talking about arrogance... and ignorance.

It is a video of a single event, or if you could provide other videos of Palestinian Soldiers doing house searches, shoots a women, destroy the interior and break down their walls, while occupying Israel lands?? I admit I know no vid of such kind.. because Israel is not occupied.

If you have in possession of such a vid, Then I would say that 'that vid bias.

Do you have any vid there mirrors that vid scenario..??

Paladin SG

An article from the THE NEW YOKER

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060807fa_fact

lionnoisy SG

IDF setback at Bint Jbeil

By Ed Blanche JDW Special Correspondent
Beirut,01 August 2006

An elite unit of the Israel Defence Force (IDF) suffered a major setback in its thrust into south Lebanon on 26 July when it was confronted by fighters from the Islamic Resistance - the armed wing of the Lebanese Shi'ite Party of God (Hizbullah) - in the strategic hilltop village of Bint Jbeil.

In fierce close-quarter fighting, often hand-to-hand, two infantry companies of the IDF Golani Brigade's 51st Battalion were apparently ambushed in the village's narrow streets.

The IDF suffered eight dead - including the battalion's deputy commander, Major Roi Klein, who threw himself on a grenade - and 25 wounded; they were forced to withdraw in some of the heaviest combat since the fighting began on 12 July.

119 of 338 words
© 2006 Jane's Information Group

Nuad SG

im not going to comment about who's right or wrong in the conflict, i think its too grey and lines are too blurred.

but reading the artical above, if it did actually happen. i salute the major who gave his life to save his men from the grenade.

wonder if i would see that if the saf is called to battle

RIP

MobyDog SG

I believe more than a decade ago, during a live grenade training. An SAF officer actually did exactly that when one of the Trainee dropped a primed grenade behind the sandbox.

From what I know.. he threw himself over the grenade to lessen the impact.

If I remember correctly.. any old old bird here to clarify.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

From what I heard he didn’t throw himself on the grenade leh, he pushed the recruit out of harms way but lacked the time to take cover.

seancannot SG

By BENJAMIN HARVEY, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 18 minutes ago

JERUSALEM - Hezbollah's sophisticated anti-tank missiles are perhaps the guerrilla group's deadliest weapon in Lebanon fighting, with their ability to pierce Israel's most advanced tanks.

Experts say this is further evidence that Israel is facing a well-equipped army in this war, not a ragtag militia.

Hezbollah has fired Russian-made Metis-M anti-tank missiles and owns European-made Milan missiles, the army confirmed on Friday.

In the last two days alone, these missiles have killed seven soldiers and damaged three Israeli-made Merkava tanks mountains of steel that are vaunted as symbols of Israel's military might, the army said. Israeli media say most of the 44 soldiers killed in four weeks of fighting were hit by anti-tank missiles.

"They (Hezbollah guerrillas) have some of the most advanced anti-tank missiles in the world," said Yossi Kuperwasser, a senior military intelligence officer who retired earlier this summer.

"This is not a militia, it's an infantry brigade with all the support units," Kuperwasser said

Looks like merkava are not so advance after all ... SAF should learn a lesson from IDF performance in this conflict... I just hope SAF dun be so complacent ... If merkava is can destroy so easily how about our AMX 13 10 p ... easy meat!

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Pls lah, only fools (or those who don't do their homework) assume the worlds best MBTS like the Abrams or the Merkava are unhurtable. Given the right amount of explosives any tank will be vulnerable. What tanks do against what is more of an effect of people who think war is only waged by getting the best weapons and charging in on a technologically weaker foe. Which is hardly the case.

What is wrong here is not the tanks (which are doing as well as they can given what they are taking), it is really the tatics that need to be worked on bringing the best abilities of the Merk against their foes and working to cover up their weakness. But I don't think they have any much better tank in the world to go into battle with.

I think people focus too much on the losses at times, one never bothered to count how many lives were saved by the tanks. While one may here reports of an Abrams or two being demolished by massive IEDs in Iraq, the truth is (and if you have seen the pictures), the tanks have held out very well in most cases to being attacked by IEDs that would have killed soldiers had they been in lesser machines.

Shotgun SG

Agreed. The IDF probably did not expect hezbollah to know how to employ anti-armor tactics with such effectiveness. They probably knew about them having such weapons, but knowing how to use it effectively is a different story.

The Hezbollah have become very well trained fighting lot, no doubt trained by former Iranian or Syrian special forces or ex-military personnel. We know that the Iranians and Syrians are the suppliers of such weaponry, and naturally, they would train Hezbollah to use them.

I believe one of the forumites here had a very accurate description of Hezbollah. They are the "French Foreign Legion" equivalent of the Syrian and Iranian armed forces.

Hmm, since Hezbollah is jointly supported and trained by Iran and Syria, I wonder what will happen if relations between the two turn hostile? Would it lead to a possible break up of hezbollah?

Another thing. Has the Israelis fielded their Trophy system on the armored vehicles?

wiseyoung SG

Israeli Tactics & Strategy South of the Litani River.
Re-posted from other Internet Forum
==================================================

It appears the tactics & strategy employed thus far by the Israeli High
command are exposing their MBTs ( & soldiers) to maximum disadvantage
vis-a-vis Hezbollah fighters south of the Litani river.

It appears that:

1/ Securing just 5km security zone is not sufficient. It appears
that even this thin strip of ''occupied'' 5km zone is not properly
garrisoned with enough Israeli troops! In many instances these
areas are re-occupied / re- infiltrated by Hezbollah after the
Israeli troops leave the area. Hezbollah can re-enter the
vacated area again & again after the Israeli left. In turn,
Israeli troops have to re-conquer / re-capture the same piece
of ground again & again. And each time the Israeli re-enter
the fray, their MBTs & APCs & combat bulldozers have to
endure / suffer the same hail of anti-tank fire (ATGMs) etc..
It appears the Israeli are paying for the same piece of ground
over & over again!

2/ The tactic & habit of sending in ground troops to enter &
search every building & house is very wasteful of Israeli lives.
Besides, many Israeli soldiers were caught inside these
houses & buildings by Hezbilloh firing ATGMs into these
houses with the Israeli searching inside them!

There are many instances of tunnels & bunkers built inside
houses, with inter-connecting tunnels between all these
houses etc... Hezbollah fighters can re-appear from under
these tunnels networks & ambush the remaining Israeli
troopers by surprise.

3/ It appears the current tactics south of the Litani river is
dictated by a fear of Casualties on the part of the present Israeli
politicians ( who incidentally are not ex-generals like their
predecessors - ex-PM Sharon,Barak, etc...)

4/ To win the fight south of the Litani river, the Israeli MUST re-think
their tactics & strategy.

a) Their must be more ground troops committed to the battle.
An additional 40,000 ground troops MUST be sent into
southern Lebanon to occupy all ground up to the Litani river.
This will create a buffer zone of at least 50 Km up to the
Litani river.

b) The extra 40,000 troops will form the NEW front line facing
Hezbollah. The existing 10,000 Israeli troops currently
battling Hezbollah will continue to liquidate Hezbollah positions.
However, no new supply of ammo or reinforcement will
reach any existing Hezbollah positions BEHIND the NEW
front line created.
Without fresh ammo & fresh reinforcement, the positions
of all Hezbollah fighters behind the new front line are
unsustainable.

c) All houses & buildings below the Litani river & BEHIND the
new front-line will be destroyed/ flattened.
The occupants of the houses will be allowed to vacate the
buildings first. Special care & attention must be paid to
get the old, sick & aged folks out of these houses first.
All houses will then be bombed & destroyed / flattened.
There is NO need for Israeli troops to fight from room-to-room
& house-to house. This tactic is very wasteful of Israeli lives.

Once destroyed / flattened, the MBTs, APCs, combat Bulldozers
can be used to compact the rubble & houses. This will ensure
hidden bunkers & tunnels etc... will remain sealed forever.

d)The whole of the area South of the Litani River will be devoid
of any civilians. This whole area will be declared a free-fire zone.
Giant, intricate minefields will be constructed to deter any intruders.
It will be declared a no-go war-zone. No unauthorised movement
of any kind will be permitted, day or night.

e) The remaining city of Tyre will be fenced-in, together with the
remaining skeleton population. Tyre will eventually be deserted/empty

The existing 10,000 Israeli troops will continue to patrol & garrison
the area behind the New front line to ensure Hezbollah cannot re-occupy
these areas south of the Litani river.

The New frontline will be manned by 40,000 fresh Israeli troops.
These 40,000 troops will be dug-in to face Hezbollah for the next phase of the war.
This could last a long time.

In the meantime, the war (including Aircraft & Artillery) will continue as
per current tactics & strategy North of the Litani river.

SpecOps87 SG

I suppose that the Tankees, killed by big-ass IEDs and RPGs,ATGMs, spitballs and paperclips shot from rubber bands are usually killed by the concussive force of the explosive rather then the sharpnel or any others. As in most pics of damages Merkavas or Abrams, the tank is still largely in the orignal form and shape thanks to their armour. But the concussion actually kills by the magnification of the metal

coolant SG

BTW, Merkava-4 was destroyed by what type of weapon? Heard Hezbl got some awesome Russian designed ATMs & RPGs

insouciant SG

Actually it's a tad disappointing how the word has held Israel to double standards.

Israel has never openly declared that any nation or race should be destroyed unlike the Hizbolla, Hamas or Iran.

Take any nation, repeatly shower rockets on its citizens, send bombs (human or remote control) and kidnap its citizens, and thene expect them not to retaliate is ridiculous! And the fact that these terrorists groups are being supported by governements (where do you think all their advanced weoponry came from) makes it even more amazing that so many in the world are critizing Israel. Shocked

Now I'm not saying that it's right to cause so many civilian causalties, but com'on people, if people were bombing Singapore killing your sisters and parents, kidnapping your sons, maiming your daughters.. Then openly declaring: "I want to wipe you off the face of the earth!" How would you react?? Evil or Very Mad

lwflee SG

The argument can me made the other way. If the people of Israels allows its Army to employ "shock and awe" to punish civilians for the actions of some, don't blame Lebanon.

Will you allow another nation to bomb your friends and family, etc? Will you fight to defend/avenge your peers?

You probably will.

LazerLordz SG

and that's why it's called war. People die in wars.

Bleeding heart liberals should find a way to end the war, and not cover their ears and go "nininininini"

Laughing

lwflee SG

How you retaliate is important as well. If another country were to bomb Singapore, I would not condone the RSAF deliberately carpet bombing civilian installations.

lwflee SG

Alas, I have no idea how to stop the war. Well, I do have an idea actually. You need to cut off US,etc support for israel, both financial and military and let it fight its own wars.

LazerLordz SG

and Iran+Syria should do the same too.

Who knows, it might become police action instead, a ragtag criminal group versus Israeli border police and SWAT. Rolling Eyes

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