LCA (Light Combat Aircraft) Tejas

last SG · 2006-05-13T01:18:09+00:00

Kaveri engine is not ready according to schedule and need foreign assist which India resists initially.It is true that India is colloborating with foreign co...

arjun SG

Another aspect is that it is designed to outwit the fighters like F-16, Mig-29,Mirage and to bring in the latest of the technologies into the LCA program.

F-16, Mig's and Mirages are old aircrafts from the a970's where are the LCA program started only in 1990. And it is not that you can build a plane in one day and it will get obsolute the next day. After induction improvements will be made on the planes to keep it updated with the latest technology. Like the F-16 block 50, 60 etc and Mig-29 versions. And don't be saddened, LCA is made to be better than those planes.

Black Aces SG

I applaud you Arjun for your pride in Indian-Made military items.

Being a Indian patriot (hey, your nick is even taken from non other than the home-made tank), or even hovers to being nationalist to the extreme, it is sometimes this pride that tends to cloud your sentiments (& this applies to other 'patriots', or nationalists, in other forums esp like Sina.com) that your country's products can out-climb, out-fly, out-gun, out-perform, out-turn other more well-known contempories Western/Russian-made military hardwares.

As the saying goes, you can say/claim whatever you want, BUT perhaps the only evidence of that is when that item which you uphold with so much pride can hold/perform & perhaps defeat the opposing weaponry in a .... war (not just that 'harmless' wargames but a no-hold barbs shooting war where someone actually dies...period.

I'm not particularly concern whether the LCA can defeat the Viper, Fulcum or even Mirages 2000s (well ther IAF already flies/possess the latter 2) & the PAF the former. Well, personally I doubt Russia will release the Fulcrum to the PAF or the PAF can afford the M2000s, the most probable opponent that the LCA will see is perhaps the Vipers... or even J-10s (or F-10s) in PAF service. IF the LCA can score against the J-10s, Vipers etc (w/o the former suffering huge losses to itself in return)

THEN Indian-Made military hardware will definitely gain another believer here.

qnh1011 SG

Hi Mr Indian-Nationalist.... it is good to some extent to be proud of your country's achievements, but it is another matter entirely to insult others in the process of doing so (esp if they're very well-deserving of due respect). incidentally, pray tell, how do you rate your air force's performance against RSAF during SINDEX 04? after all we were only using "old' F16s and you guys bent the ROEs to your advantage? would you like to share with the rest of members here what was the kill ratio? how abt sharing with us what happened after one of your journals/newspapers thumbed down Pakistan's F16s vis-a-vis RSAF's during the Ex? I have the utmost respect for our IAF counterparts and i seriously doubt any of them share your chest thumping boasts here.

it is your gov's perogative if they so decide to choose the LCA to replace your old migs (esp mig21s), but the LCA is certainly not "designed to outwit the fighters like F-16, Mig-29,Mirage". Outwit? u think this is some kinda Survivor tv show? i find it really hard to understand how the LCA is "made to be better than those planes". let me help you thru the thought process of what constitutes the essential qualities of a high performance jet ftr: compile and compare the various components that make up the LCA, F16 and Mirage 2K5. and if you think the LCA is still "better", then whip out that table and i'll go thru each line item with you.

Just the facts, pls. no fantasy/paper planning stuff....

RAMBO29 SG

.....

arjun SG

hey, your nick is even taken from non other than the home-made tank

Arjun is a mythological character from the epic Mahabaratha

out-climb, out-fly, out-gun, out-perform, out-turn other more well-known contempories Western/Russian-made military hardwares.

This is not what I say, but the designer himself. Check this out.

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:6g6pk-kqmh8J:www.cs.usyd.edu.au/~jdavis/wshop/kota.doc+lca%2Bmirage%2Bkota%2Bf-16%2Bmig&hl=en&gl=in&ct=clnk&cd=6

THEN Indian-Made military hardware will definitely gain another believer here.

You waiting for another war.

Let me remind you people that one will not become a nationalist if he talks or discusses things related to ones nation. And I am just doing that.

but it is another matter entirely to insult others in the process of doing so

Who insulted whom?

how abt sharing with us what happened after one of your journals/newspapers thumbed down Pakistan's F16s vis-a-vis RSAF's during the Ex?

I think you are discussing about this article:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/896301.cms

Why are you so bothered about this article on American F-16's losing.

Why should you be bothered about this article. Singapore faces challenges and it is unique to Singapore and the weapon system the Singapore Armed forces possess is enough to counter those challenges. So why worry?

Here is some info on SINDEX:
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_events/nr/2004/oct/26oct04_nr.html

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_events/nr/2006/jan/03jan06_nr.html

qnh1011 SG

hi rambo, no offence taken, but you may wish to consider your comments in its context. e.g. u comparing sheer absolute capabilities or relativity?

qnh1011 SG

u are doing more than talking or discussing abt things relating to the state of India. if you dun see it, others do.

er, i was never bothered by the article. your fellow countrymen were. both sides knew the truth behind the falsehoods in the article. mebbe u can explain why the writer was so concerned abt F16s that made him write the article in the 1st place? i'm well aware of my country's challenges and how we deal with them. thanks for asking, but i dun worry excessively or unnecessarily cos there are other fishes to fry too.

thnaks for the links, but you have not answered the qns.

how the LCA is "made to be better than those planes" e.g. F16, F15, Mig 29, Mirage2k5 etc. i suppose u going put the LCA on par with the Euro canards?

how do you rate your air force's performance against RSAF during SINDEX 04?

what was the kill ratio?

ta!

arjun SG

how do you rate your air force's performance against RSAF during SINDEX 04?

what was the kill ratio?

Without any information provided by the RSAF and IAF how can one rate the performance of the IAF or RSAF?
Check the above links leading to the government site but no info on who performed better.

arjun SG

Some new information on the Kaveri engine and the LCA project
http://www.india-defence.com/reports/1466

Asian Aerospace 2006: Kaveri K9 on track for testing

New Delhi: India's Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) plans to deliver a Kaveri K9 turbofan to Russia for flight tests by mid-year in the run-up to the engine's installation in the Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) by the end of 2006.

The long-awaited Kaveri test move comes as Snecma wins an ADA contract to assist in its final development phase. "It's more of a peer review contract," says ADA propulsion systems group director Swaminathan Ratnam, who adds the upcoming Russian tests are scheduled to run from June through September on an Ilyushin Il-76 testbed.

Following the completion of tests, the engine will be returned to Bangalore for the start of installation work on PV1 (prototype vehicle), one of four LCAs currently engaged in flight tests. The indigenously developed Kaveri, originally planned as the baseline engine for the LCA, will replace the General Electric F404-IN20, 11 of which have now been supplied to the indigenous Indian fighter programme. The integration effort will involve replacing sections of the fuselage as well as an inlet design optimised for the Kaveri. Flight tests are not expected to start until well into 2007. Meanwhile, the ADA displayed at Asian Aerospace a model of the naval version of LCA

arjun SG

how the LCA is "made to be better than those planes" e.g. F16, F15, Mig 29, Mirage2k5 etc. i suppose u going put the LCA on par with the Euro canards?

http://www.cs.usyd.edu.au/~jdavis/wshop/kota.doc.
From the above article by K.H

Fig. 1. LCA in Flight

*
* High survivability in ECM/ECCM environment
Adequate range for close support and interdiction

The need was that performance must be superior to fighters such as F-16 of American origin, Mirage-2000 of French origin and Mig-29 of Russian origin. Another requirement was that the technology deployed should enable aircraft remain current for duration of its service without major upgrades. It was evident that goals of performance and life could be achieved only if the best of technologies available in the field of aviation were harnessed in the making of LCA (Fig.2)

Pleas read the article in full.

qnh1011 SG

yes, my good indian fren, i have read the article in full and nowhere does it state that the LCA is ACTUALLY superior to the F16/Mirage2k5 or the Mig29.

Let me guide you thru your quoted extract: the latter states that the performance of the a/c MUST be superior; not that it actually is. Another REQUIREMENT is that the technology has to remain current. However, it is evident that these 2 requirements CAN only be achieved IF the best of aviation technologies WERE harnessed in the making of the LCA. Going by the probs faced by the manufacturers, i sure pple can draw their own conclusions.

Please read the article CAREFULLY and in full

it seems to me that while you are loyal to your home brand, you have done so at others' expense. and for all the patriotic qualities that you display and all the info you have quoted, you seem unable to understand the nuances of the article.

your response pls.

PS: i'm very tempted to say that you're not the sharpest knife in the kitchen, but that would be too personal and childish... so i shall hold back that comment. Laughing

qnh1011 SG

the info was not provided becos both sides respect and are grateful for the mutually beneficial opportunity. besides those who really know the outcome are well aware of the results. obviously, you are not privy to them. never mind then... i'll concede this point in lieu of your percieved ignorance. cheers! Wink

RAMBO29 SG

I do respect SAF..

arjun SG

the latter states that the performance of the a/c MUST be superior; not that it actually is.

If one talks about making the aircraft to be superior means he has the intention to do so and he is talking all after the successful flight of the LCA, we can assume that the LCA is superior.

Another REQUIREMENT is that the technology has to remain current. However, it is evident that these 2 requirements CAN only be achieved IF the best of aviation technologies WERE harnessed in the making of the LCA.

By going through the article, you will come across this part and then you see KH explaining the advanced state of the art technologies used in the development of the LCA and Core Technologies and Design Concepts of LCA.

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:6g6pk-kqmh8J:www.cs.usyd.edu.au/~jdavis/wshop/kota.doc+lca%2Bmirage%2Bkota%2Bf-16%2Bmig&hl=en&gl=in&ct=clnk&cd=6

http://www.cs.usyd.edu.au/~jdavis/wshop/kota.doc

Going by the probs faced by the manufacturers, i sure pple can draw their own conclusions.

The conclusion is that LCA programme became so tough because of the reasons stated above.

To really know the superiority of LCA, it need to be inducted into the IAF and the IAF must conduct exercise with the LCA and the MIg-29's and Mirages.

arjun SG

Tejas prototype makes supersonic flight
BANGALORE, MAY 13 (PTI)
http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=384565

A prototype of India's indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft made a supersonic flight here today.

The PV 2 prototype is the "definitve" operational version of the Tejas jet for induction into the Indian Air Force (IAF). It first made a supersonic flight yesterday, the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) here said.

It made another supersonic flight today, for the first time carrying two state-of-the-art air-to-air missiles. This indicated the jet's entry into the operational flight test phase, it said.

The test flight was flown by Wing Commander Vikram Singh and lasted 24 minutes, the ADA said.

The Tejas is meant to replace the IAF's ageing fleet of Russian-made MiG jets.

duotiga83 SG

ok…after all th etesting….has it INDUCTED ont the force? Has the IN consider the LCA-N also after considering MiG-29K?

duotiga83 SG

oh and btw thanks for being a salesman here…...

qnh1011 SG

well, it looks like i have to concede and admit i'm wrong here... i'm wrong to thnk that Arjun has any sense at all...

ok, hotshot, u wanna carry on living in your la-la land and "assume" that the LCA is superior, go ahead. i'll let facts prove themselves true (hopefully in peaceful circumstances rather than in any war). Using your warped sense of logic, if LMTAS, boeing, Mig and dassault all tok abt making their respective a/c superior to the LCA, that means they have the intention to do so and waht's more, unlike the Indians, they all have the capability to do so. therefore, we can assume that their ftrs are superior.

"To really know the superiority of LCA, it need to be inducted into the IAF and the IAF must conduct exercise with the LCA and the MIg-29's and Mirages."

You could not have said it better... yes, before you continue trumpeting the LCA, let the IAF "induct" the LCA first, then conduct an Ex with Mig29 and Mirage2K5, and finally let the factual results speak for themselves.

since we cant see eye to eye on this, let's agree to disagree and move on... it seems senseless to continue debating this when you fail to see the logic...

arjun SG

ok...after all th etesting....has it INDUCTED ont the force? Has the IN consider the LCA-N also after considering MiG-29K?

The navy has shown keen interest in the NLCA and one of the pilots flying the LCA is a naval pilot. The Mig-29K's are in limited numbers and is for the INS Vikramaditya or the AC acquired from Russia. The Indian AC will have the NLCA.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/LCA.html

zenden9 SG

Originally posted by arjun:
Some new information on the Kaveri engine and the LCA project
http://www.india-defence.com/reports/1466

Asian Aerospace 2006: Kaveri K9 on track for testing

New Delhi: India's Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) plans to deliver a Kaveri K9 turbofan to Russia for flight tests by mid-year in the run-up to the engine's installation in the Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) by the end of 2006.

The long-awaited Kaveri test move comes as Snecma wins an ADA contract to assist in its final development phase. "It's more of a peer review contract," says ADA propulsion systems group director Swaminathan Ratnam, who adds the upcoming Russian tests are scheduled to run from June through September on an Ilyushin Il-76 testbed.

Following the completion of tests, the engine will be returned to Bangalore for the start of installation work on PV1 (prototype vehicle), one of four LCAs currently engaged in flight tests. The indigenously developed Kaveri, originally planned as the baseline engine for the LCA, will replace the General Electric F404-IN20, 11 of which have now been supplied to the indigenous Indian fighter programme. The integration effort will involve replacing sections of the fuselage as well as an inlet design optimised for the Kaveri. Flight tests are not expected to start until well into 2007. Meanwhile, the ADA displayed at Asian Aerospace a model of the naval version of LCA

How it is going to be indigenous engine with a foreign company providing assist in the final design? They shall not use the word 'indigenous' Laughing Most probably at the end of the day. The indians don't even know how 40% of the engine works and cannot produce 100% of all the parts!

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