Re: Bayonets ?

last SG · 2005-08-16T22:40:50+00:00

I completely agree. It either means you are charging the enemy, or it's your last stand. Sometimes it means both.

Gedanken SG

Cute. Wherever did you learn to do jungle fighting or CQB with a bayonet attached?

Fatum SG

that's why we need to revise the doctrine ! ... okay .... FIBUA with bayonets would be impractical with an M16 .... but we got a bullpup rifle now .... as for jungle fighting, the only reason commanders don't want you to fix bayonet is during exercise some cockster will skewer someone or himself or something like that .....

Gedanken SG

Nuh-uh. In both CQB and jungle fighting, a shorter weapon is always preferable because you don’t want it getting caught on anything. Hell, as it is, if it wasn’t for the muzzle flash, I would have happily switched my carbine’s flash suppressor for the standard M16 bit.

insouciant SG

I think if the enemy come around the tree with a full loaded and cocked rifle, it doesn't matter if you have a bayonet attached. Cuz he's going to be able to point and shoot a lot fast then you can charge and direct your bayonet into his vitals so that he can't pull the trigger.

Might be a better idea to dive as far away as you can and pray your buddy will cover you.

Shotgun SG

Well, to have to go into bayonet fighting; u'd either be charging down a trench, and detached from ur section. Which shouldn't happen.

Either that, u're the last man standing. Rifle over head sounds like a better option unless u are someone likely to be interrogated severely.

SpecOps87 SG

Hmmmz....can the Ultimax 100 be fitted with a bayonet too? Dunnoe bout u guys,but i feel that havin an additional weapon in combat is better then bring one less. If remove the bayonet,perhaps should equip with a sidearm with 1 mag in weapon and 2 additional mags. Very Happy

Gedanken SG

Which is fine until you bring space and gravity into the equation.

nightzip SG

how about fixing the infantry parang onto the SAR21. Twisted Evil

then can slash and thrust and give more intimidation to enemy.

insouciant SG

Actually a pistol with an extra mag or two might be nice. Thigh holster?

This would especially be gd for the SAW gunners when they do FIBUA.

crazy monkey SG

carry samurai sword better Laughing

Fatum SG

to equip with pistols would be expensive ... even if it's only to all infantry based formations alone (infantry, guards, commandos ... ) a bayonet would be a cheap and universal solution ...

what i think a bayonet would be good for:

psychological weapon - an edged weapon tickles your brain stem like no other ... it's a primeval thing, might notch up the confidence a bit .... further more, a bayonet would not be solely for just close-in, hand to hand combat alone ... think crowd control ... military operations other than war, again, a lesson from the war in Iraq: ... suppose we take over a town or city somewhere, how do we deal with order and control issues ? ... protesters, agitators ? ... a fixed bayonet would send a very clear signal not to mess around ... much more effective and less confrontational to the civilians to the other side (as opposed to having to shoot a few rounds in the air ...) ... the psychological effect works both ways too ....

close combat weapon - like i said earlier, the terrain of our potential battlefield makes very close in contact often unavoidable, and a bayonet would make a good "immediate action" weapon, (think night fighting ... ever got contacted at night ? ... how close was it ? ... ) and again, considering the fact that our average infantryman would be a citizen soldier, bayonet fighting would be a much more easier skill to learn and to execute ... (as opposed to unarmed combat ... )

I dunno ... i just can't shake off the nagging unease that the SAF has done away with bayonet fighting all together ....

Gedanken SG

I think incidents like Bloody Sunday have pretty much demonstrated that lethal firearms and crowd control don't mix. If you're looking to intimidate the crowds, tear-gas guns, water cannons and other nonlethal weapons with muzzles you can stick your arm into will do the job admirably, thank you very much. The bayonet's redundant under those circumstances.

If you're contacted at night, you've got ammo in your weapon - use it.

The design and intent of the bayonet dates back to the days of manually-loaded weapons and charging trenches. With current fighting techniques, it's redundant. If you do need to silence the enemy, you can use a knife that's not necessarily a bayonet.

iveco SG

You rangers have the stilleto knife to show off. How about making it available to the guards formation as well?

Gedanken SG

Reality check, iveco. Our issued stilettos are never taken out on missions. The way I heard it, in the early years, some nutjob took his out and used it on some unsuspecting victim. During my time, they were issued to us for the red beret presentation, then returned to the armskote where they never saw the light of day again.

During my service, my bayonet sat in the cupboard gathering dust - with my OC's blessing, I used my personal Gerber Mark II.

BadzMaro SG

All i know is.. by the time i am using bayonets or my knife instead of my rifles and side arms.. situation has gone to hell.. and to slash through a mob.. i will need the sharpest and most effective way to cut my way through! lol.. sometimes..shit happens ! Shocked

spencer99 SG

I tend to feel that SAF should not totally do away from bayonet fighting.

I thot it is a good training to ingrain "aggressiveness" and a sense of 'attack' on your combat troops.

Gedanken SG

Don't know if there's any lack of aggressiveness these days, but I certainly spent a fair few BTECs giggling myself stupid while the lads were running about, chasing Guardsmen and screaming, "NBCB! Ler mai zhao! Ler mai zhao!". Mr. Green

Shotgun SG

Nowadays, it seems like they are really trying to change the SAF into a tech force rather than a gung-ho ChiONg Ah Gang.

I mean, nothing wrong with Gunghoness, but it seems like they want ppl who can look thru the scope of the weapon, fire, kill, next target, fire, next target. Like in a computer game.

I think they are right in one sense.

Like it or not, most of us aren't as fit as our fathers were, when they were in NS. ANd we weren't spat at, by Israeli commanders. To continue with the image that Singapore's Army is about being "super-fit, fierce, tough and gungho" is gonna turn of the next generation of Singaporean youths, who are in generally, NOT very Garang.

So, its better to bank the image on technology. Make the SAF look very high-tech, in order to influence youths to think better of the SAF. If the youths of today dun sign on, who's gonna?

bcoy SG

Hmmm... then you must have heard about some bayonet incident, since we both served at around the same time.

Fatum SG

I suppose part of my reservation stems from the fact that the SAF today, or so it seems to me, thinks that technology is the be all and end all for everything ... perhaps it's because i started my military service not in tekong BMTC (no disrespect intended) but in a place where the emphasis was very different, i'm imbued with the thinking that in the end, all battles boils down to a dirty infantry based war, where you fight eye-ball to eye-ball with the enemy ... i suppose technology is well and good in it's own way ... but untill the day when we develop robots to do the fighting for us ... (no need for NS then ? ... Laughing ) .... it'll still be the dirty and smelly grunts plodding along in a jungle somewhere with a rifle and a few grenades that'll decide the outcome ... the talk may be about net-work centric warfare and RMA and all that ... but let's not forget that that the fundamentals of warfare hasn't changed for millennias ..... think of the 3 robbers at tekong not so long ago .... it still took boots on the ground to find someone who doesn't want to be found isn't it ? so perhaps it's not just about doing away with bayonet fighting per se ..... but my unease at creating future generations of soldiers who might view warfare as a "pressing buttons" sort of affair. Yes, times have changed, the youth of today aren't the youth of our father's times, I'm aware of that too ... i didn't serve NS during a time when policemen still wore shorts ... but if the crap hits the fan ... you suppose our enemy's would take that into account ? ...

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