Moonstriker SG oh ya… did anyone see 2 BMPs in SG camo color on the BKE ard 1week plus back…? In the morning…
tiggersgd SG interesting to note the 2 schools of thought - western and russian/ex-soviet. i think for SG, it is more important that we know our own needs pertaining to the budget and size of our force. we cannot afford large numbers compared to bigger countries and in terms of human resources, we are at a disadvantage due to our land capacity which resulted in the population size being small and contained. having the above in mind, it is thus important that this "mbt" that we are all so interested in must come from within the country and not merely from an external source. specifications and design of the "new" AFV must be unique and caters to the very need in times of operation...multi-operations. i likened this "multi-operations" to that of a multi-role fighter jet. therefore, not any schools of thought nor any mbt in the present can satisfy the requirement. i believe we need not a mbt in terms of size but rather a mbt in terms of capacity and operational status to match in any operational situations that we might be in.
bot_in_shop SG I do agree with you in that the SM1 needs to be changed. However, what I do feel is that Singapore's solution does not lie with the MBT route... The SEA terrain is one that is extremely difficult for MBTs to function at will. For the SAF to use MBTs, the SAF Armor Corps would then have to give up its ability to conduct rapid manuevers, giving up 'mobility'! Either Russian or Western-style MBTs would still face that same problem. Light tanks from my point of view are preferable to MBTs for their ease of passage through the surrounding terrain, allowing the armor corps to surprise the enemy where it never expects to face armor units! The XM8 would have been good. Too bad the program was cancelled... The AMX 10 PAC 90 was a move in replacing the SM1 but too bad it failed.
panzerjager SG A cheap solution to go with our current systems if we will never phase in an MBT-class vehicle and have to rely on IFV types, is to develop cannon/grenade ammunition that have the reach of MBT type main armament. But instead of expecting a total vehicle kill, i.e. penetration via KE or CE rounds, such ammo will ensure total mobility/vision kill/incapacitation. Mechanisms already in place include the 40mm ABMS for grenades that are claimed to be able to knock out the optics of target vehicles. Supposedly the idea of the non-lethal weapon application of sticky goo or entrapment netting could also be used in conjuction with air-bursting rounds to envelope the target vehicles' running gear or weapon/optics systems in an all-round fashion, i.e. regardless of the attitude of the target in relation to the engagement profile. Such a tactic would buy enough time for the dedicated hunter-killer ATGM/LAW teams to ensure final vehicle and crew kills. We do not have to waste too much higher valued air-based munitions for such a job.
panzerjager SG The problem to use cannon/grenade type ammo for delivery of non-lethal apparatus could be in the volume constraints of the payload of each round. It could boil down to novel chemical processes to contain sticky goo in stable, compacted form in the rounds, which upon detonation by air-bursting fuse, the substrates could rapidly react with the onset of immediate exposure to ambient atmosphere in a self-forging manner, expanding in micro-seconds to form the required aereal expanse for encapsulating target area. Coupled with automatic firing rates of cannon/grenades to achieve a blanket effect. This process could be further developed for the case of employing entrapment netting within the space available for cannon/grenade ammo.
Shotgun SG Haha. Already heard about the MBT. I am quite cock sure about it. Though I have yet to see it. Heard some loose lipped armor officer blabbing it on the MRT. I happened to be in that carriage and heard him talk about his training in that tank. Anyways, it, MBTs maybe heavy. But sometimes, the ground isn't as soft as its made out to be.
cutebug SG I was told by a tankee officer in Australia that Sg brought 100 secondhand tanks from a sensitive country, for the price of US 1 million each. Is that expensive for a secondhand tank? How much a new tank will cost, why not sg buy new one?
Shotgun SG Cos its quite a good second hand tank? LOL. Maybe its not a tank at all?? It could have legs... Partical Pulse Cannons as well as Heavy Auto Cannons..
Groovee SG hmm. i tot we bought ion cannons?! i heard it from my friend's auntie's nephew's friend's officer....
Shotgun SG No leh, My uncle’s nephew’s neighbour’s dog’s girlfriend’s brother who is an armor officer says its more like mechwarriors.
bot_in_shop SG Wondering whether that armor officer knows what he is talking about in the first place... Yup, the ground may not be soft but what if it rains? Heehee, then the MBT can go for a premature fording exercise... In the kind of mud that SEA terrain is famous for, that would be an extremely interesting exercise! By the way, does anybody know whether the US Marines use their M-60s in Exercise Cobra Gold? I think that would an extremely useful gauge...
gary1910 SG If it is one the latest generation tanks like the M1,Challenger, Leo2A4, Merk 3 ,Leclerc , K1 etc even at version of the 90s will still be considered very cheap. A Leo2A4 cost IIRC at least 3-5 mils. All latest tanks of today with all the up-to-date vectronics and defence system cost at around 10mils. The OZ new M1A1 & with very good after sale svc cost them almost 10mils per piece. I hope the 2nd hand tanks will be upgraded to all the latest vehtronics and defence system and should be armed with a 120mm gun so to better penetrate the latest ERA armour,
+Alucard+ SG Guess some guys juz like to brag abt all this. Whether this is true or not is up to u guys to decide. Whether Spore is getting a new MBT or not will forever be a mystery to the public. Even Tempest is not shown to the public Shotgun u can forget about seeing the "other one". Anyway Spore is going to setup a new armour unit which run solo. Read that from defending the lion city. If there is a new MBT runnin around it will mostly likely be for this armour unit and u gona be upset for there will be no training on that so call "tank" in Spore. The only training that will be held will be oversea.
panzerjager SG Might not be so, the official introduction of MBTs by closest neighbour for the official record of 'national defence' could herald/warrant local military's to duly reveal the tank in question...
Joe Black SG Me hope this too, but it is most likely that SAF would not go for such things, maybe the reactive armour as add-on before an REAL operation. SAF will not invest big money on MBT I think. Given that MBT in Singapore context is only like buying insurance for an unlikely war, SAF would rather spend money on acquiring a new SM1 replacement and more money on SFs. The new MBT is certainly a secondhand one which once served one of the world most fearsome army in the world. However, I do sincerely hope that they will eventually be upgraded with Hunter-Killer capability, active defensive suite (liken the one installed on Merk 4 or Swedish CV90-120), reactive armour and a new powerful engine to increase the weight to power ratio so that the new MBT will be able to move just as fast as the Bionix and the new light tank. Anyway just my opinion. I can't influence the defense planners and the bean counters... ha ha
Shotgun SG That unit supposed to be "all-regular" also one right? Except for some of the B veh drivers perhaps. Anyways, yeah, I havent even seen the tempest before, though a close gauge of them would be something like what the swedes did to theirs. As for the "new" MBT. I agree about the effect of rain having on the soil. However, some of the points taken into consideration would probably have to do with the wide surface area and low turret profiles. The wider the surface area the tracks come in contact with the ground, the less pressure on it. And honestly speaking, MBTs may have limited use in such area, but they would have better use in other "reinforced" terrain. I don't wanna start another discussion about MBTs in fibua environments. Just realise that MBTs have changed much since the days of the Coldwar.
gary1910 SG Actually I think it is calculated moves by Mindef, getting the latest stuff mean high price, afterall we have to look at the regional forces around us. To me getting a better MBT as compare to our Tempest is I believe to counter the new threat from the north, otherwise we would not have to get a better MBT than Tempest ( To me , I think the Tempest still have a place in SAF, retiring them is a waste). Even the new MBT come w/o the latest stuff, I think it will still be more potent and survivable than the 105mm Tempest when face with the upgraded T-72s. Just like the SP ADA in the other thread, we are not facing a large fleet of enemy fighters or any attack helos at all, therefore what we have now is quite sufficient at the moment. Our northern friend is getting more helos at the moment and hoping to get AHs in the future, I heard that we are also at moment working to have a better SP ADA system to counter the future threat.
cutebug SG Posting edited due to violation of posting guideline No.5 as stated in this thread 5) It is often tempting to tell everyone how much you know or about what you are. Or drop hints, clues and make innuendos to that effect, when youre not supposed to. DONT. You might be giving away more than you think!
Viper52 SG Cutebug, I’ve directed you to the thread on posting guidelines when you posted questions on this topic yesterday. Did you read the posting guidelines but refuse to acknowledge them, or do you simply didn’t bother?
+Alucard+ SG WOW. Seem like someone knows wat that so call new tank is. By the way, wat u mean by 12 road wheel??? dun really understand.
