SAF MBT(Main Battle Tank)

last SG · 2004-04-07T21:52:33+00:00

Does it matters!!! I would rather have a Pyschologically consoling Naval Fleet Inspection during the national day 2007.

Joe Black SG

Originally posted by cj1t08:
The israeli army does use the abrahams.

I only know that Israel had a favour Abraham, that is the father of the Jewish people and some of the Arabs. I am sure there are many Abrahams in the army. Smile

If you are talking about IDF using Abrams, then I am sure that you are gravely mistaken. Unless you can prove this with references, I don't think many people are going to be buying your claims here.

Israel has one of the BEST MBT in the world, namely the Merkava 4. IDF stopped buying foreign tanks since the first version of Merkava was produced in the late 70s, early 80s.

If you wish to see more info about Merkava, here are some of them:

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/merkava4/

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/merkava/MerkavaMk4.html

http://www.defense-update.com/directory/merkava4.htm

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Mekava.htm

They have been buying their MBTs from the USA since god knows when. do you actually think a M113 would supply sufficient protection and firepower for the ground troops should the event of a full-scale war between the arabs and israelis break out? NO.

M113 is NOT a tank. It is an APC, and Israel have different types of APCs (mostly indigenously converted from old MBTs) than M113.

IDF also have other tanks in their inventory, just out of my head I can list the following:

1. Merkava 4, 3 Baz, 3, 2
2. M60A3TTS and their derivatives including the Sabra
3. Centurions - heavily modified, but I think they are in reserve now

anyway just another question. do you think that the singapore made Bionex (think its spelt this way) is powerful enough to provide the protection and firepower needed?

It is spelt BIONIX.

BIONIX is an IFV, it serves its roles as a battle field taxi that can defeat light armoured vehicles. It is NOT a tank if I read the context of your statement correctly.

hey... maybe one of the reasons why we think the spore got has never bought a MBT is bcos' we already have tank killers ie Apache AH-64[/b]

WRONG again. Singapore has MBT. I shall NOT eleborate more.

eurofighter SG

x2
The israelis have never used any abrams. In the past, the Israelis did use american tanks like M48, Sherman and M60. These tanks have seen combat in many of the wars Israel took part.

bot_in_shop SG

[/b]

Well.... that is new... Shocked Never knew the Israelis required American tanks when they have their own Merkavas that were specially designed to meet the IDF's requirements. In terms of actual comparison between the Abrams and the Merkavas, there is no actual guarantee that the Abram is superior to the Israeli's homegrown MBT and the Merkava's unique turret design gives it an advantage in dug-in positions. Furthermore, do not underestimate the M113, especially an IDF M113. The strength of its designs are such that even up to today, countries are still designing derivatives of the M113, such as KFV 2000

Why not? That the Bionix was even allowed to enter the US Army Interim Armored Vehicle competition shows that it has sufficient merits to recommend a closer look. Furthermore, in terms of firepower, it is a relatively easy though expensive task of upgrading the firepower of the Bionix, through the use of more powerful 30mm cannons, which was reported as being an considered option.

Another thing, if you have actually read the front of the thread, Singapore does possess MBTs in the form of Centurion MBTs. So this issue about Singapore possessing MBTs is a moot one. Furthermore, I don't think a squadron of Apaches are going to be sufficient to ward off a determined armored thrust. Given the growing sophiscation of air defence weapons, it would be foolhardy for anybody to rely completely on air power to win the day.

Moonstriker SG

x3 on that

cavsg SG

The SAF gives the impression that it would indeed be madness to test its preparedness.

http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=76149

Shotgun SG

Not to the extent of projecting an image of aggression. As if we would go to war over every little thing.

Anyways, why do you guys keep ruling out the ABRAMs? Damn?

Can't we actually have abrams? I mean Singapore already selected its new fighter already, and NO, its not the F-15T, rafale or typhoon or any of those. ITS THE VF-1 babe! Gerwalk and robo mode altogether. We even have the AWACs version and Jammer version too! RSAF SPACY. WOO!

Joe Black SG

Before you shout for Abrams, which model of Abrams are you talking about? The basic M1? or M1A1? or M1A2? or M1A2SEP?

I can say that we pretty much rule out anything other than the basic M1, which has only a 105mm gun and much lesser armour, not to mention the amount of gas it gobbles down... Furthermore, engineers will have to get Class 60 or 70 bridges to support the M1s, special tankers to refuel these beast. All for what? At the price of 10 million a copy, is that money well spent?

Better to get Merk 4, much cheaper and nearly as good as the M1A2. Of course, the bridging requirements won't change. At least it has a MTU engine, advanced electronics, and the best thing, it is nearly half an M1 price tag.

Sabra II or III, we are looking at even cheaper, probably not more than 4 or 5 mil per copy or even lesser. So, with a limited budget and the current threat level in the region, I can't see the justification for getting Abrams.

We should be happy with Sabra (with an upgraded engine plus additional Merk 4 stuffs)

Shotgun SG

There is another version. Perhaps not heard of. The M1A2SEP is actually an interim upgrade package for the proposed M1A3... which is never gonna happen.

Its supposedly a version of the Abrams with diesel engine, and an export armor package. Which probably means it would be lighter while retaining decent armor protection as well as its accuracy.

Does it sound more plausible for local terrain already?

panzerjager SG

Don't forget, the Abrams (& Challenger) employ DU APFSDS rounds. Even Abrams has DU armour. Given the risks of comtamination to crew and unintended fratricidal targets who survive, I doubt SAF will ever want to field a 'double-edged sword' in their armoury

wd1 SG

there were a few posts on the previous page abt the israeli hovet and machbet...

IMO they are used in BUA/refugee cities coz of i) their M61 gatling's high rate of fire, reasonable accuracy and not-overly-destructive caliber; and ii) its high elevation capabilities -- originially meant for antiaircraft targeting, this also means the hovet/machbet can elevate to engage guerillas/terrorists on rooftops. not something most AFVs can do.

as for the merkava vs abrams debate... i dont see any advantage, other than speed and turret bustle blow-off panels, that the mk4 has over the abrams. do consider the mk4 will be at least $1-2mil cheaper, has that funky compartment in the back u can put troops in, is no less powerful armament-wise, has better fuel efficiency with that 1500hp MTU diesel than the abram's infamous fuel-guzzling gas turbine and IMO looks wayyyy better. i love that rounded turret!

B29 SG

hey your think sg sould buy more artilery or tanks ?

in an offensive war , I would rather ask the arty to wack the shit out of e enemy first b4 sending in armour or infantary to mop it up right ?

in defensive war , wait 4 enemy to the FH 2000 can do e job nice and steady , add some F16s, future ( maybe )F15 or YF23 to the picture to make it nicer Smile

Shotgun SG

I think we have more than enough artillery already. Haha. We just need to produce more of them ICMs. Hahhaha. Use arty to level our way through.

snk86 SG

yes yes yes, our M60 right? duh............haha, okok, jkjk, if it is something more mordern, i am not too sure..........

|-|05| SG

Yea it's definately something better then that!!!

Shotgun SG

Its a DIREWOLF! We have a few MadCat Primes too.

|-|05| SG

dude u duno ar? they change name of the DIREWOLF the DAISHI liao lah..u outdated!!!

Shotgun SG

I thot Direwolf was the official nick name? Hahha. oh well.

|-|05| SG

direwolf is the clan name....daishi is the sphere name...

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

If the Israelis design and create a new tank, and call it the “Abraham”, we will hear no end of it from the Arabs…

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Dire Wolf is what the Clans call it lah, Daishi is what the Inner Sphere call it.

The name Daishi was supposed to mean "Great Death", given by the Draconis Combine (Japanese people), but it appears that Daishi, or "Da-Shi" seems like a chinese phrase to me.

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