Singapore's Next Generation Fighter

last SG · 2004-03-08T17:15:05+00:00

Agree that the ILS alone would swing it all to the F-15E. Even politically it maybe a better decision though the benefits would not be as great as South Kore...

eurofighter SG

The earlier air superiority F-15 A/B/C/D eagles have scored against the arab planes. In fact they were the first to have used the eagle to down bogies rather than the americans. The F-15I entered service in 1997/1998 only so has seen little combat maybe except being used against PLO and other terroists in mud-moving missions.

Viper52 SG

Ahhh...reading too much again my friend. I referred to the oft-repeated points about the F-15 as the dead horse. Not the F-15 itself, which I respect as an aircraft.

So, I tend to repeat other points raised by fellow posters? But that is because we share the same views that's all, sorry.

No need to apologize, just that those points have been rebutted by several posters without reply.

There is a lot of difference between "nice to have" and "need to have". In the current economic climate and the Singaporean kiasuism of wanting everything cheap and good....... the choice seems quite clear.

True, but you have to remember 2 facts:

- Singapore's defence posture is based on making up for our strategic lack of depth by outnumbering its potential adversaries both in numbers and in quality of our training and equipment, and...

- That the first fact above is seriously being threatened, at least in the qualitative front, by the increasing proliferation of the Su-27/30 being introduced into our neighbour's inventories. And these types have already shown their superiority to the Eagle. Even those with the AESA radars.

Viper52 SG

LazerLordz, the RSAF, like many airforces, is moving away from single-role aircraft towards multi- and swing-role aircraft. So in actual fact, the term "replacement for Skyhawks" is in itself, slightly misleading.

It is indeed true that this NGF is to bridge the gap between the F-16 and JSF. However, we also have to remember that our priority is to bridge the gap, not just in terms of time, but also to maintain the edge that we currently still have in the region.

Rafale is not battle-proven and the EF2000 has already met with many hiccups.

Flotill 12F of the Aeronavale might have something to say about the first part of that statement. Laughing

[quote]When it comes to the Army, singapore may take their chances with indigenous equipment.But when it comes to aviation, I do not think the policy of the ministry is that of risk-taking, especially when the risks do not constiute any radical experimentation in the form of unknown technology.

On the contrary, the Super Skyhawk, F-5 upgrade package and the choice of MPA are examples of that.

BTW, I'm an appreciator of old aircraft as well, although I prefer the F6F Hellcat myself. Wink

Seen a C-47 flying before? Now that is a real classic, a must-see by anyone who has any interest in historic aviation.

sbst275 SG

F15S is F15 Saudi Arabia mind you

sbst275 SG

Originally posted by Viper52:

True, but you have to remember 2 facts:

- Singapore's defence posture is based on making up for our strategic lack of depth by outnumbering its potential adversaries both in numbers and in quality of our training and equipment, and...

- That the first fact above is seriously being threatened, at least in the qualitative front, by the increasing proliferation of the Su-27/30 being introduced into our neighbour's inventories. And these types have already shown their superiority to the Eagle. Even those with the AESA radars.
[/b]

SU27 or SU30 especially cannot beat the F15T. F15T is highly upgraded above the F15E standard not to say F15K. What's more, it MAY be added with Isarel technology

Viper52 SG

The main improvement in air-to-air combat capabilities in the proposed F-15T centres around the APG-63(V)2 or (V)3 AESA radar. This is the radar being used by the F-15C Eagles (from the 19 Fighter Sqn, 3rd Composite Wing from Elmendorf, Alaska) that took part in the recent Cope India exercise where the Indian Su-30s came up tops. And the F-15Cs in Cope India had the Helmet Mounted Sight (JHMCS)/AIM-9X capability which we have seen no indication might be offered to Singapore.

What's more, it MAY be added with Isarel technology

Quite presumptous don't you think?

Old Bird SG

Right you are, sbst275.

The F15K currently undergoing production is equipped with the GE engines and the construction has moved away from honeycomb structures to gridlocks.
As far as the upgraded blackboxes and all the good stuff, your guess is as good as mine. A jet is only as good as the airframe that provides the lift for all that expensive video arcade gizmos. All that gizmos ain't worth a crap sitting on the ground.

Latest inside info is, the Typhoon sucks big time. They struggled to bring the jets all the way here and are breaking like hell over here. Is our weather thingy. They forgt to tropicalise the jets like other electrical appliances. Heat and humidity does wonders to screw up electronics.

Such a pity. Such an expensive jet, dressed up with all the latest gadgets and it cannot even leave the ground. Might as well use it as a paper weight.

All dressed up and no where to go.

sbst275 SG

Don't forget, if we don't get US radar, get from Israel

duotiga83 SG

regarding F-15 vs Su-27/30 series, there is reports on the results…....even with the recent Cope India exercise…...shall not say more…...shld be rather obvious

sbst275 SG

Correct, I think F15T will be best

EF2000 is gone case, I have already said that it is dangerous for solo flying already. Now with this prob, wa lau...

Viper52 SG

Heres a couple of interesting articles about technology transfer and how Singapore views them.

=============

The Straits Times, Page H6 - February 26, 2004

Share know-how to secure deals here, says DSTA
By David Boey

DEFENCE companies aiming to land a Singapore contract were told in no uncertain terms yesterday that their sales pitch had better include the sharing of defence know-how with Singapore.

Arms deals with Singapore had stalled when vendors failed to recognise that the transfer of technology could be a deal-breaker, said the Defence Science and Technology Agency (DSTA), the national authority on military technology and weapons procurements.

Making the point at a two-hour briefing for some 130 defence companies, Mr Soh Kong Pheng, deputy chief executive (operations) at DSTA, said: 'Many of our suppliers can't understand, or underestimate, the importance we place on having technology transfers... We do this so we can, if we need to, upgrade the hardware. Suppliers can achieve an important competitive advantage if they understand this requirement well.'

Citing the ongoing evaluations to find a replacement fighter for the A-4 Super Skyhawk, he said the new warplanes might need to work with unmanned vehicles in future and DSTA also needed to understand how the fighter worked if it were to be upgraded.

Warplanes being evaluated in the deal, estimated to be worth $2 billion, are Dassault Aviation's Rafale, the Boeing F-15T Strike Eagle and the Eurofighter Typhoon.

While contractors would not want to give away all their trade secrets, Mr Soh said 'at the minimum' they should ensure DSTA can 'upgrade, modify and integrate' the warplanes at reasonable cost.

Another key concern was maintenance costs. As much as 40 per cent of the acquisition cost goes to supporting the aircraft through its 20- to 30-year life cycle.

'We need to buy spares, maintenance and support equipment, and so on. And for readiness reasons, we buy much of these upfront... This is too costly,' he said.

He suggested that the three warplane makers think up an 'investment strategy' for maintenance to minimise the upfront expenditure.

Viper52 SG

While the F-15T campaign manager, Tom Lillis, admitted at Asian Aerospace, when asked about releasing on source codes to Singapore.

Singapore wants to maintain and adapt the new fighters(but) we have to abide by U.S. government rules because it owns this stuff, not us,

sbst275 SG

F15T still not in production yet and that was an excercise as an MiG29 shot down an F15 bef on an excercise too

Old Bird SG

And that leaves the Rafale to compete with its French technology and French lingo which none of us can understand.

Our local aircraft maintainers are already finding it hard to speak a second language must now learn French.

The Frech people are a stuckup lot.... they won't speak English to you even if they know how to and even when they know you cannot speak French. Been through that before, and they tend to keep alot of things to themselves.

It is going to be a blast trying to convert their Technical Manuals into English so that our guys can understand.

sbst275 SG

That has all along an prob, but some green light go was given in the 11th hr like the green light to buy AH64 longbrow is 1 example

Even France and BAE may not give us fully as well, who knows? It's a matter of politics.

If cannot, we have a way out, Israel still.....

sbst275 SG

Their missiles are very ex and they have been trying to get our deal all along by allowing our pilots in France to fly the Mirage 2000

Old Bird SG

Yeah, and when Singapore wanted to buy the F16 it was initially offered the export version with the JT79 engine.

And now the Block 52 plus are rolling in.

duotiga83 SG

there is a trial in UK where F-15E vs Typhoon…....

sbst275 SG

USA has been v fond of doing that, so don't expect things to be settled early, anything can happen even at the 11th hr.

Unlike a neighbour getting a good plane but got a lousy radar and weapons instead from USA

sbst275 SG

Did you hear of "weather" prob? As I'm from SGBuses, buses do have such thing as well. Certain engine is not suitable for the tropical climate when they are excellent in Cool climate like in UK

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