Replacement for SAW?

one-niner SG

ermm the drum are not being used anymore. the gunner has to carry 16 magzines on him ...

Temujin SG

I stress the word used to carry. Mr. Green

That is why I mentioned about the spring on the 100 rounds drum magazine and the change to the 30 rounds SAW mag and the disuse of the drum.

one-niner SG

Originally posted by Temujin:

I stress the word [b]used to carry. Mr. Green

That is why I mentioned about the spring on the 100 rounds drum magazine and the change to the 30 rounds SAW mag and the disuse of the drum.[/b]

sorry ... too busy reading my coding then switch to forum..haha.....pretty funny site especially during ATEC, when my SAW gunners were lugging soo many magazines and firing...taking out from bags..hmm sometimes i really wonder deep down if really got war and the enemy sees us carrying all these magazines all over the shop, will they die laughing or what man ...

Temujin SG

That's why we need a belt feed SAW. The magazine change for a support weapon is ridiculous.

one-niner SG

it could be due to some logistical or serious hindsight by our SAF top ppl in the past aye ? But the drum magazine was used before also right ? Just curious ..how big,heavy troublesome is the machine or tools used to feed the rnds into the drum magazine ?

Everyone is going belt belt belt..one thing to consider, is using a belt fed SAW going to be lighter ? I mean the mechanisms needed for the belt fed and extraction. If the Mini and Negev weapons were belt fed as well, chances of the mechanisms of a GPMP based feeding tray and extraction system has to be in place.

Maybe the designers designed the weapon for portability and ease of use.Stripping and maintening the SAW is so simple, just removing the butt and taking out the bolt assembly

There will always be its detractors of a belt fed and magazine fed weapon always..on the bright side..the SAW with a 30 rnd magazine is light.Maybe with the new SBO, the SAW gunners might get dedicated pounhes for holding all 16 magazines on him. I don't really like the idea of sloshing ard a 100 rnd box in humid conditions, the sound of clanking rnds can be heard from afar. my unit's SOP is to lay the ammo boxes with old sandbags to reduce the clanking.

sidestep1984 SG

Blackhawk battle enhanced m-16 mag pouch....holds 6 m-16 mags....

3 pouches...equals to 18 mags....

storywolf SG

In true fact, most of the time magzine feed is more effective when you are fighting on the move.

However there are time when Saw is deploy to be defensive or ambush type of mission which does not need much movement , and the mission require substain type of shooting. Belt is advantage as you don't need to stop to change magzine, also a buddy can alway link the belt to another ammo belt without u needing to stop firing.

fudgester SG

There are advantages and disadvantages to using both magazine feed and belts.....

I think the mother of all SAWs would be one which can accept BOTH belted and magazine feed rounds. Think about it.... the SAW gunner could use magazine feed during mobile assaults for greater mobility and switch to belted ammo while doing defence for greater firepower.

I don't suppose there are any weapons which can accept both magazines and ammo belts.... are there?

bcoy SG

The FN Minimi/M249 and the Korean copies of this SAW, as well as the Israeli SAW can fire from both belts and M16 type magazines.

Israeli Negev SAW with belt ammo in ammo bag

Israeli Negev SAW with M16 magazine[/url]

Joshua1975 SG

Rolling Eyes who talk about 1.5 contact rate and who teach you about SAW rate Question put in backpack Laughing might as well put in the bunk locker. Dun use the words STANDARD unless you are very sure of it.
Unit dun always issue loader to SAW gunner or at PL level, and even so they dun really have the opportunity to used it at all as blanks cannot be fully loaded into the DRUM MAG, that is why your unit never 'REALLY' use DRUM MAG.

will be 3 X DRUM MAG and 9 X 30 RDS MAG.

Spring in the drum mag dun work well to due to poor maintenance simple as that.

Temujin SG

I am glad that it is not in use as I will not argue about the spring, it's in the AAR of a foreign army about the drum magazine.

The keyword here is just the word "drum magazine".

HTH.

HALI SG

We are talking about fire power in SAF in a section level.

Take a look at the norm SAF Inf. section now, if not all most of the weapon use are all home made weapon.

Key word HOME MADE and it had and has proven SAW works very well in other armies.

Those who really used it knows the accuracy that SAW has. (aim short burst) and even with suppressive fire, hitting rates is above 87%.

fudgester SG

Wow... ok.... I didn't know that such a SAW existed.....

But comparing the other system specs (weight, length, recoil, etc), how does the Negev fare against the Ultimax?

sidestep1984 SG

well…its not abt designing a new SAW…the Ultimax is the best in its class…to make it perfect…just make it able to accept belts…....

bcoy SG

I have no experience using the FN Minimi/M249 or the Negev - but all SAWs using the combo belt/magazine feed are more heavy than the Ultimax 100.

21Alpha SG

Keep the Ultimax. Mod the SAR-21 mags and the Ultimax to fit each other. Keep the 100-rd mag. Design a pounch for the new LBV to carry the 100-rd mags.

We don't need a LMG (i.e. a belt-fed automatic weapon) for the SAW role. An automatic rifle (i.e. a magazine-fed automatic weapon) like the Ultimax is fine.

Remember, we work in closed terrain. When we do the section quick assualt, it's not going to be a 3-400m flank, it'll be 150-200m usually. 100-rds is enuf if the SAW gunner does it right.

I think the current SAW is very ideal. Why get a heavier weapon to do this? Carry more ammo instead.

fudgester SG

The mother of all SAWs would then be one which has all the positive aspects of the Ultimax (light weight, high accuracy, low recoil) with the ability to accept both magazines and belted ammo (just like the Negev).

Until such a weapon can be designed and manufactured, I suggest sticking to the good ol' Ultimax.

Tango1 SG

I think the Ultimax is good for our local use..but we should a mix of para versions as well...folding stock and all...it would help for Cdos, scouts, etc. A second improvement would be to mount picatinny rails on it so that the SAW gunner has the same magnification as the rifleman, considering they all carry SAR-21 now...what do u guys think? Mr. Green

sidestep1984 SG

REPLACEMENT FOR THE SAW!!!!!!!ITS OUT!!!

sidestep1984 SG

guess the fact that the 100 round drums arent used is becos it needs a tool to insert ammo into the drums...so for training's sake...the normal 30 round magazine is used....btw...have u ever seen an M16 using an ultimax drum?...it looks damn one of a kind sia...just like a tommy...

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