storywolf SG In the old days infantry section are 9 men. Then it went down to 7 men. Seem to be the same with the rest of the army world wide. However the US Marine still retain a good size as need to expect casulties which soon make too small a section ineffective and impractical. Your thoughts on it, and how they should best be armed with. To me I still prefer 9 men section. As you still can effectively break them into 3 man team which have the right fire power still and in the even of injuries, still have manpower to evaculate the injuired while still engage the enemy. my choice would be. Group1 : M16 M16-m203 ultimax 100 Group2 : M16 M16-m203 ultimax 100 group3 : M16 GPMG M16 - medic
sidestep1984 SG In my opinion.... 1 Sergeant Assault Rifle with grenade launcher 2 GPMG Gunners(hehehe......must be super big ppl sia..of course...need to carry ammo and stuff...size matters...lol) 1 Medic 2 LAWS carriers 1 Signalman 2 Riflemen with grenade launchers..... i think arh this would be ideal in my own little world...i think will be abit overkill...but wat the heck...fantasy wat....wat abt u guys?...wat would u guys have ure Infantry section armed with?
Jace d' Alvarado SG man i say this is the best man. 1 sgt, carrying 2 law, 2 saw, 3 rifles, 2 m203. 6 men carrying food, radio, tv, game console, poker cards, mahjong table, dvd player, handphone, pornographic dvds, drugs, cigarettes now thats kewl man.
storywolf SG You know why the Sgt carry 2 law , 2 saw, 3 rifles , 2 m203 ? That is because you are one of the 6 men that he will use them on ! He will shoot 1st with all 3 rifles ! follow by 2 m203 then 2 saw and finally to make sure nothing if left , the 2 law !!! Think after that nothing much left to kewl !!! Dude !
one-niner SG +1 well i think the ultimate in a army general's ORBAT will be 3 sections, each section with 3 man ..haa..each men has a weapon of a section.similar to those Dune Harkornne troopers.with gatling gun and mini rockets encased in armour suits.. just joking above.. well i think a 7 men section is pretty gd enough. Just curious does the US Army Squad contains a MG team in each squad ?
12qwaszx SG same as what SAF have now cept' change the sharpshooter to have a 4x scope and a better auto rifle
LRRP SG LRRP operates in 6 man teams..Sometimes 5.. SOG in Vietnam operates wth 3 Americans , 6 Yards.
storywolf SG I just don't know about the 7 man section. You see in a 9 men team, even if 3 man is shot, you got 3 men attending to them and getting them out of harm way, all along with 3 man still providing fire to keep the enemy down = you still have 1 group strength firing . Sort of if 7 man !!! 3 man down, you are totally screwed 1/2 already gone, you cannot provide fire and help the injuried the same time. Sort of a little to thin, the number maybe good but it don't cater to any injuries.
Shotgun SG in the 7 man section, the moment 1 man goes down, the section is screwed alr wad. 1 Casualty 2 Casevac left 4 ppl, fight what? Run loh.
spencer99 SG The reason why we move from 9 men to 7 men is because of demographic reason. With lower number of enlistees, the SAF is force to reduce the number of men per section = lesser men per company = lesser men per Bn so that it can retain the same number of Unit (Bn) and Formations (Bde and Div) with a lower number of men. if stick to 9 men section, will have to scrap some Unit and Formation and then where are we going to post the scholars.
storywolf SG Actually we move down from 9 men to 7 men is not because of demographic reason. It is more of a move toward mechanised infantries. In the past, usually we are expect to be of 9 men section, but that prove too huge section to be transported in a armour vehicles like M113 . Thus the move towards 7 person section which did not break up the group and yet all feeded into on vehicle. Nowaday that mean we would expect our infantries to ride into wars and not like old times, walk walk around to look for enemy, also their ride - vehicle will provide the fire support to make up the less manpower.
fudgester SG If that's the case, then are we indeed becoming mechanised? I have never been seen an M113 or a Bionix in real life, much less been in one. But I think that demographic factors were a major component in the decision to trim down the size of the infantry section. I remember reading a Straits Times article on manpower management in the SAF with regards to the shrinking population. Not only were the infantry sections trimmed, they farmed out services like catering and some forms of transport to the private sector. That said, having extra men around in the section wouldn't hurt too much. While the sect comd may have some extra headaches controlling a couple more men, I'm sure with some practice he'll appreciate having the extra muscle.
specfore SG 7 men section is too small. In my time , the 9 men section was adequate. You have 3 small fire teams for the commander to deploy as he wish and provide back up. In WW2, some American infantry sections were 11 to 13 strong, and they were already partly mobile/ mechanised. Most times, because of various factors, sickness, injury... other duties.... the 9 men section of the past was sometimes 8 soldiers. During my reservist, when 7 men section was implemented.... on one or 2 occasions some sections had to merge for training because of lack of soldiers... became a section plus for training ! In real ops, I would expect this to happen, as a result of injury, KIA, attachment to other companies etc etc . The resultant section may end up too small to be effective for fighting, except for recce patrol.
baer SG Obviously not GPMG trained, a GPMG team is actually a three man team, gunner, 2nd Gunner/ammo and Calafaire. If you have carried a GPMG up biang you know why need 3 men.
storywolf SG Baer don't go around insulting people as not GPMG trained when you are the one that is not trainned. You are just blindly following what your so call instructor teach you and are too narrow minded !!! GMPG is not just mean to be a good support weapon. It is a good powerful weapon even in assualt mission. If you are taught that way does not mean, other like us are taught the same. Yes they do train some folks on 3 man fire support team which 3 man GPMG team you say, that the junior level man !!! But there are other way to deploy the GMPG, we are taught to do assault with it and are trained to handle it on our own - one person - using bipod. Each GPMG - 1 gunner with ammo. Those with M16s only will help to carry the extra ammos. I personally carry the GMPG alone and other also did the same in each exerise which see us move 50km per day usually in each exerise, yep in exercise you curse like shit, but when in real war, it is worth its weight in gold . Just because you are so lousy trained - that you must have 3 person then can use a GMPG, please do not assume other units or people are not better train till one gunner can ownself use a GMPG !!!
sidestep1984 SG yeah...when somehow a soldier is trained to use a GPMG by himself without needing another person to carry the ammo...that made him a force multiplier...such things can be trained over time of course.... anywaes....i was wondering....off topic... if lets say u are in a section... a machinegunner or someone carrying some LAWS is having trouble with his load....wat would u do?....just stare and dont help becos somehow u arent supposed to carry watever he is carrying and just mind ure business?...or u chip in and help with some of his load?
storywolf SG Originally posted by storywolf: ..my choice would be. Group1 : M16 M16-m203 ultimax 100 Group2 : M16 ( can help carry extra GPMG rounds) M16-m203 ultimax 100 group3 : M16 ( can help carry extra GPMG rounds ) GPMG - can carry GPMG with 1 or 2 belt M16 - medic Baer - why cannot ????
storywolf SG Sorry for US and England, their infantry machine gunner are all trainned to handle the m204 or GPMG alone. Even in the movie blackhawk down, they show the 2 clown that got left behind, one with light machine gun, and the other is the M240 ( GMPG). Think people need to see GMPG more then a support weapon that need to be fix onto a vehicle or tripod.
dragonstar SG Baer, let me put myself in the firing line for you - I think you are getting some unfair flak The 81mm mortar is not just mean [sic] to be a good support weapon. It is a good powerful weapon even in assualt[sic] mission. Yes they do train some folks that mortar needs a fire support team. But there are other way[sic] to deploy the 81mm mortar, we can to do assault with it and to handle it on our own - one person - not even using bipod (the mortar is only 31 kgs without the bipod, 43.6 with bipod). Each mortar - 1 mortar man with ammo (each only 4kgs). Those with M16s only will help to carry the extra ammos. Oh hell isn't that why it is called a team effort? Ha ha ha ... Just because everyone is so lousy trained[sic] - it doesn't mean that you must have 3 person then can use an 81mm mortar, please do not assume other units or people in all armies in the world are not better train till one mortar man can ownself use an 81mm mortar!!! Hmm, wonder if I can extend the argument to a 120mm mortar - after all, I spent the whole reservist with a similarly armed weapon. Now let's see. If the commander can be trained to drive the Primus, then he can deploy the SPH. Preparing and loading a 155 projectile is a one person job, and so is preparing and loading the charge. The commander can then lay the weapon and fire the gun. The commander can do it all himself!!! HEY !!! I HAVE SOLVED THE ENTIRE SAF MANPOWER PROBLEM HA...HA...HA...
