Yom Kippur War

last SG · 2005-01-29T02:03:06+00:00

some pics for you to relax from this source while you guys to think up more stories to tell Yom Kippur Eve Mea Shearim 1972 I N . M E A . S H E A R I M.in...

[email protected] SG

thats a stupid play on words. yes he collapsed. so collapsing after he had been dunked does not bring to mind drowning? how about the other casualties? u mean to say that u really believed that coincidentally it could have been that several people all suddenly collapsed after the dunking and that drowning couldn't have been the actual reason? how come the medics who arrived to bring him to hospital knew he'd drowned?
some people here started saying that En Huai might have been unfit hence collapsed. I don't see u defending him from those allegations either. How long does an autopsy take? How long b4 MINDEF finally admitted he drowned? When did I start telling people he'd drowned? I told them just about a week after his collapse was reported in the news.MINDEF took that much longer to do so. YOU? what were you doing? oh wait. u would be risking your job if u had to tell the truth. i see. ok. so now telling the world that SAF lied about his death constitutes as propagating my own agenda. So should I go along with the masses and pretend I was fooled to seem otherwise? HUH? look at the 4 men in court. Now u tell me. ARE they actually directly responsible for his death? which of the 4 actually held En Huai's head underwater? YOU tell me, since u say u know so much. But u'll probably say u're not at liberty to say. why? oh because u'll risk your job!

Obersturmfuhrer SG

The general feel for most NSFs are, more often then not, that the SAF is mostly a wayang organisation and "f***ed up". But think about it. If the SAF is just wayang, it must be deserving of an oscar award since nothing extraordinarily big has happened since it's foundation, except being called a small red dot that is. Laughing

freddy the K SG

sheesh.. igo brush my teeth and this little twerp's edited his post...

"why? because u'd be putting your job on the line if u did that?" nope, i only told the truth. like i said, u claim to know the truth from behind a clerk's desk and 2nd rate word from a classmate who did not see the whole thing as he testified in court. u calling him a liar then?

"damn you" - heng, this only goes to show your viscious character. dun act the goody-two-shoes. damn yourself....

"I took those risks" - you!? har! i warned you abt sullying en huai's memories. dun claim credit when it's not due to you!

"so what if u were at his wake? so what if u had to plough thru the reports and attend court?" - it showed i cared enuff abt him. what abt u?!

"DID u try to tell the truth when it mattered?" no i did not try... i DID! unlike some (go look int he mirror)

"Dare u look at the 4 people charged in court now and tell me anyone of them is actually directly responsible for En Huai's death? DARE YOU?"

ok, here goes, not all 4 were actually directly responsible. There were 2.

Now, here's my challenge: DARE u stop sullying En huai's name and waving his banner to pursue your personal selfish agenda?

[email protected] SG

thanks for proving again that u don't know what I did. there are people here who know and thats what matters. you don't know, so u can say whatever u want, because that is not going to change that fact. btw. u've got some facts wrong. i never had my info from an old classmate who testified in court. u might want to brush up on your credibility a bit.

and let me ask u. are the 2 directly responsible among those 4 men? let's see how honest u can be then.

freddy the K SG

this is getting way too silly. the cause has to be established before a statement is made. Surely u shld know that! but wait, Heng only makes allegations w/o substantiating wif facts.... nobody said "that drowning couldn't have been the actual reason". r u now saying it? the medics who attended to En huai were not able to ascertain the cause and they testified so in the court proceedings. didn't u know that? oh wait... u didn't bother to attend or were too insignificant to be called.

some of the pple here do not equate to the whole of SAF.

"How long does an autopsy take? How long b4 MINDEF finally admitted he drowned? When did I start telling people he'd drowned? I told them just about a week after his collapse was reported in the news.MINDEF took that much longer to do so."

the autopsy took place w/in 48 hrs due to death from unnatural circumstances. MINDEF announced this within 72 hrs; way before your one week. i.e. MINDEF took that much shorter a time to do so.

"so now telling the world that SAF lied about his death constitutes as propagating my own agenda."- no heng, the SAF did not lie abt his death. but u faking and sullying En huai's death does.

"So should I go along with the masses and pretend I was fooled to seem otherwise?" - u have been a fool all along and a greater one for not realising it.

"But u'll probably say u're not at liberty to say. why? oh because u'll risk your job!" u assume too much... as usual

freddy the K SG

"thanks for proving again that u don't know what I did" - i have never alleged that i know what u did. so what is there to prove?

"u've got some facts wrong. i never had my info from an old classmate who testified in court. u might want to brush up on your credibility a bit."

sorry, i meant schoolmate. and it does not matter what u say now, heng. we have spoken to him and he mentioned you. how else do you think i know u?

[email protected] SG

sorry but do u think anything from that sham trial can be trusted? are they saying what they originally said or are they saying what SAF wanted them to say?

MINDEF did not release his cause of death within 72 hours.

yes they did, until they had to come out with the truth, and bless u if u ever find out what a key factor for that was.

ho ho ho. self indulgence, thats what.

then say it. who actually killed him? and have they actually been charged?

[email protected] SG

sorry mate. i never got my facts from an old schoolmate who testified in court either. i get my facts from several more reliable sources.

Pablo SG

Freddy, I sense arrogance and loss of composure in you. If you are truely some big wig from SAF giving talks in schools, god help SAF.

LazerLordz SG

Eh punk ass, don't go walking around like you know Heng's personally.Seldom do I get angry enough to swear online but your arrogant, down-the-line shoveling of your self-professed opinions down the mouth of another fellow human really takes the cake.

You waltz into a place, pay scant respect to the climate and context because you think your aged wisdom is the holy of holies and no one shall question your experience.A real man does not need to nitpick the arguments of others to win his case.From the beginning to the end, all I've seen is a tape recorder looping over and over again.

Please do yourself and others a favor and learn what is humility, empathy and pick up some pamphlets regarding the existence of proper contextual nuances in a discussion which started before you butted your tailored ass in. Unless you've had a friend die like Heng did, please don't assume you have the moral nor the social high ground to shoot missiles at others.Rage of a familiar hath its privilege.You dont.Simple enough.

And btw, I attended these NE talks before when i was in school.Some of the speakers could not really give a coherent or genuine answer to questions posed by JC students.Really gives one an idea of the supposed knowledge gap eh?God, I feel sorry for your men.But hey, who's the one flooding MN with sarcasm six feet deep and three feet wide?
Evil or Very Mad

LazerLordz SG

[email protected], no point arguing with this fellow.Some people are not born to discuss things objectively, they are born to attack the person behind the ideas, and not the ideas themselves.And how often have we seen this sort of behaviour flying around like a demented vampire?Lots.Countless even.I’ve been denudated with such crap all my life.

IAF SG

Moderator, looks as if order needs to be restored here. This thread has been hijacked and has degenerated into flaming war

freddy the K SG

right, i can now see why some of the more original established and reputable members chose to migrate to another forum. let me see, if i leave, heng will sing "aww i dun normally taunt, but where did frauddy go now? did i make him cry already". If i stay, others will still not accept logical reasoning and facts, rather they will state that "Some people are not born to discuss things objectively, they are born to attack the person behind the ideas, and not the ideas themselves". hmmmm....

let's see how this has gone? dear tankee asked if anyone have any links to the YK war? Heng said "the one lesson sg can learn is to never underestimate your enemy. the way our leaders talk today, they make it sound like we have a military that can overrun the whole of malaysia and indonesia in 48 hours when in reality perhaps we can hold out against malaysia OR indonesia for 48 hours n pray for someone to come to our aid(fat chance of holding out if malaysia ANd indonesia decides to join forces)" w/o citing any sources or substantiating his arguments. he later explained that he was referring to Israel's enemies not singapore's. er... ok...

he then contradicts himself by saying he does not normally taunt but still does anyway...

sarcasm? well, let's see what dear ole heng posted: "here's a nice tip. go see what "sarcasm" means here: www.dictionary.com"

unable to answer coherently, he then claims he did and calls pple names.... he then get's upset becos he used his name in his nick and pple see that. he also challenges others to reveal themselves.... hmm....

from out of nowhere, he then drags Hu's death in here and proceed to be another know-it-all championing his personal agenda. he claims to know who were responsible and refuses to name anyone, but repeatedly challenges others to mention names. he instead alleges that every single one who testified in public court were merely saying what SAF wanted them to say.

he also alleges that MINDEF did not release his cause of death within 72 hours. hmmm.... how do u think Hu's parent would have felt? instead, heng claims credit for making the first announcement....

"arrogance and loss of composure in you"? - well, i apologise if it came out that way, but perhaps u missed the very same elements from heng?

Lazerlordz, "your arrogant, down-the-line shoveling of your self-professed opinions down the mouth of another fellow human really takes the cake." doesn't that sound so familiar? oh wait... it's coming out of your own mouth right back at you...

"A real man does not need to nitpick the arguments of others to win his case.From the beginning to the end, all I've seen is a tape recorder looping over and over again. " - dear, i only point out the fallacies of the argument, but u seem to have a bone to pick wif a personality you cannot agree wif. yup, all i've seen so far is heng's recorder too...

"Unless you've had a friend die like Heng did, please don't assume you have the moral nor the social high ground to shoot missiles at others.Rage of a familiar hath its privilege.You dont.Simple enough."

unless u've done and seen the things i did, pls dun assume u have the moral nor the social high ground to lecture others. i have the privilege of mourning a fellow family member who passed on, u dun. simple enuff for u?

"who's the one flooding MN with sarcasm six feet deep and three feet wide?"

perhaps u meant to ask heng abt sarcasm... who will then refer u to a dictionary?

"[email protected], no point arguing with this fellow.Some people are not born to discuss things objectively, they are born to attack the person behind the ideas, and not the ideas themselves.And how often have we seen this sort of behaviour flying around like a demented vampire?Lots.Countless even.I've been denudated with such crap all my life."

well, at least we agree on some point. yes some pple are not born to discuss things objectively, they are born to attack the person behind the ideas, and not the ideas themselves. this just abt describes heng's and your postings here so far. and yes, i do sympathise u for having been denudated with such crap all your life.

freddy the K SG

well, IAF has a good point here. the topic is abt the YK war, not some obscure NE talk that Heng attended 4-5 years ago or Hu's death.

Heng and lazerlordz, tell you both what, i'll take it that we come from different angles and will never see eye to eye. if we cannot agree on any of the earlier postings, at least let's agree to disagree. go ahead, take your last shots. it is your given right anyway, altho i suspect it'll be more of the "where did frauddy go now? did i make him cry already?" variant...

IAF and Mod: my apologies for the hijack and degeneration.

sane_guy2 SG

Firstly, I would like to say I'm not taking either Heng or Freddy's side. I think Freddy is a little bit too agressive.

But Heng's position is highly problematic. Initially this was not about Singapore at all, but Israel. And Heng had to say something negative about SAF?

So what's some stupid talk in a JC? What bigshot? Would they send a bigshot to JC to talk?? I studied in SIngapore all the way to a master's degree, and never seen "top brass". What's a f$$king JC? So what if some officer said some stupid stuff. You must understand that this guy just go there to do his job, which is pretty boring.

But would any of Singapore's leaders say anything stupid like "our armed forces are so strong, they can march into KL in one week"?

It is the Malaysian leaders who once in a while say pretty bad things about Singapore.

And I've served my 2 and a half years too. I've met real people in the forces, and most of them don't think SAF is super strong.

But is it true we are stronger than Malaysia militarily? Yes!

In a war, can we conquer the whole of West Malaysia? No!
And that is never the intention!

Are the officers in SAF arrogant? Not for most of the folks, although SOME may be arrogant.

In any large organisation, you're bound to have some who are stupid or arrogant.

But Heng's response was unnecessarily negative, and in the first place, what happened in a JC talk is utterly insignificant.

Would that one officer at the talk be representative of SAF as a whole? I think not. I have friends who are regulars, and they certainly don't think along the lines of "we can take KL in two weeks".

Come on, as singaporeans living in Singapore, surely you guys know what it is like over here. That most regulars don't think too highly of the SAF.

Our military leaders underestimating Malaysia or Indonesia? Unlikely.

Excel 202 SG

this is well off topic.....
but all of ya have to admit some of the SAF officer is really some dime wits and they think the whole world rotate around them.
BUT there are still a few good men in service and we really should not comment on things that we really did not have a clear picture of.

Heng u really should not have to drag the decease in your arrgument to prove your point, have u thought of how his family and friends will feel when they read ur post.

Please respect the deceased.

moderator please lock or delete this post please

Pablo SG

Some big-wigged clown you are to blurt out operational code words in your posts. Don't know what sort of big shot you are in SAF. But to flame someone in your first post of this thread just shows how much of an officer you are (if you are one). You are acting like you are a nobody in the SAF looking for attention.

[email protected] SG

actually wrong again. im going to agree with u that we come from diff angles and will never see eye to eye(except this once) and leave it at that. cheers.

freddy the K SG

well, finally, some common agreement. hey, despite our vehement differences, i truely wish u the best of times in UK.

cheers to u too, ole chap! Very Happy

freddy the K SG

aw Pabs, pls. i merely mentioned OFE. For all u know, i may have meant Oscar Foxtrot Echo. besides, u dun read the papers much do you? it's been mentioned already...

"Don't know what sort of big shot you are in SAF."

yup, that's rite, u dun know much do you? wait, perhaps u are one of those whom Lazerlordz was referring to? you know, those who "are not born to discuss things objectively, they are born to attack the person behind the ideas, and not the ideas themselves."

"But to flame someone in your first post of this thread"

pls show me how i flamed Heng in my first post. or r u simply biased? Selective reading and interpretion, perhaps? for your benefit, let me refresh your memory:

"oh learned esteemed Heng, can u pls show in what way the SAF has under-estimated the enemy? Is there an enemy to begin wif? also, do show in what way our leaders talk today that make it sound like we have a military that can overrun the whole of malaysia and indonesia in 48 hours. And what makes u think we want to over-run the WHOLE of malaysia and indonesia in 48 hours?

(quoted from heng): "perhaps we can hold out against malaysia OR indonesia for 48 hours n pray for someone to come to our aid(fat chance of holding out if malaysia ANd indonesia decides to join forces)"

just becos u served 2.5 yrs of NSF as a clerk doesn't mean u know what the SAF is capable of, so dun go around tokking like u do."

Gee, i addressed him as learned and esteemed.... what more do you want? Anyway, I made my peace wif Heng and i mean it. If u cant accept it, well, as heng said: ""so sue me. U've got a problem with it, bark away. I don't care. "

cheers!

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