How many Bionix do we have now?

sane_guy2 SG

I understand that Singapore’s complete Mechanised Infantry strength, before the Bionix was revealed in 1997, was 800 vehicles. And they are going to replace all of that with Bionix, but stretched out over a long long period. I just read from MilTech World Defence Almanac, that we have 100+ Bionix. We have been phasing in Bionix for 7 years now. How come still only 100+? If this is true, that means we need 70 years to replace all APCs used in Mechanised Infantry role. Feel free to opine.

ditzy SG

Because we are slow. Laughing STK is doing all the work, they got to do this, they got to do that, now got bronco and new arty pieces to manufacture. Where to concentrate? Where? Where?

SibeiSuayKia SG

100 + ?

not possible =D

Still not gonna tell u actual number wahahah

foxtrout8 SG

100+?? A few years ago u mean?

Moonstriker SG

where got only 100?
lol...
classified info tho.. Razz

*screws and unscrews bionix parts*

Lord Kang SG

Why would they produced the real figures??All these information are classified, top secret and blah blah blah…

Fairyland SG

Bionix is the best IFV in the world.

Mr. Green

How many are therer?

Never enough.

Some numbers of track vehicles I recall from the public domain:

1000M113s of which ~350 reportedly converted to Ultras
350 BVs?
200 V200s
100 V150s
350 AMX13s dun noe how many upgraded to SM1s (200?)
56 Primus chassis?

No numbers for Bionix or Broncos.

I'm so wrong.

gary1910 SG

The number of Bionix was reported to be built abt 300-400 by Armada Int'l.
Likewise they also reported that we going to have abt 500 Bronco.

The number above of cos is not official .

As for Ultra, according to Janes' A&A 97, we bought abt 300 MUGS sight for 40/50 cupola thus with 2:1 ratio with 40/50 to 25mm RWS, my guess is that the Ultra to be abt 300 40/50 and 150 RWS.

But the number of cos could be more if there is more order since 97.

You might say that all these number is not up to date, but it may be accurate at the time of the report.

For example by the number DD engines that we have bought for upgrade of Ultra & Bionix, or the number sights for the 40/50 cupola or the number of 25 RWS that we ordered for upgrade of Ultra, thus the guesstimation.

I dun think we are going to phase out all the M113 in the near future, the Ultra started trial in 1994 and started deliveries from 1995 to at least 1998 so some of them only 5-6 years svc,and the Bionix started delivery in 97.

The point is, the M113 still have many improvement option and many armies are still using or upgrading them so it is really a waste that SAF is retiring them, and I think that the Bionix is here for our expanding orbat , not to replace the M113s , at least not in the near future.

Fairyland SG

wow!

Question : Will Bx and Broncos replace existing vehicles or are they used to expand the orbat?

Because it's alot of vehicles for a small country.

Manager433 SG

You know nothing about military. For a Armed Forces strength of 250,000 and 3 Division, the numbers are just nice.

martin_lim85 SG

then u know there are not going to have ACS in 10 to 20 years time Mr. Green

sane_guy2 SG

I know that Singapore has like 1200 armoured vehicles, but that figure is unpractical. It includes V-200 which we no longer use in Mechanised Infantry role. And 800 should be more realistic combat strength. And I don’t think they are only going to produce 400 Bionix. They will replace all 800 vehicles with Bionix. But this will be done over a long time, most likely in one generation…..25 years. 800 is more likely to be true coz each unit has 40 vehicles, that gives 20 Battalions, which is a very realistic figure. There are four Active units, and we serve 2.5 years (only changed (2) recently, so should take the old number). So that means for every 2.5 years there are 4 units. If you take 12.5 years as one life cycle, then there will be 20 units. I one life cycle is 15.5 years and not 12.5, but not all armour units are Mechanised Infantry, so must adjust downwards to be more realistic.

Fairyland SG

Well, u guys r the experts. No doubt.

Just looking for some education that's all.

Bionix and all STK's vehicles are the best and there's never enough of them.

I hope to see the SM-1 replacement. Mr. Green

LazerLordz SG

Well, imagine a highly mobile force of M8 AGS/UDLP chassis with 120mm smoothbore, Bionix 40/50, M113 Ultra OWS, LSV with Tandem SPIKE-ER, supported by F-16Ds in CAS and SEAD roles.Not bad for an army which is that young.

gary1910 SG

Most sources said that we have abt 720 M113s, and TH said that it has increased to abt 1000 units.Let's assume it is 720 units.

There are abt 100+ in oversea training grounds so those will not avialable immediately during conflict , and some not just use for AI only , Arty units with 120 SP mortar carriers , armoured pioneer Pl in AEC, some maybe in support unit as ARVs and maybe some in Medical support units as ambulances.

I have no figure for such units but the number could be as high as 300+ for support units and oversea training.

So leaving abt 400 M113s , just enough for abt 3 armoured bde.( Ultra?)

From 90s to now, we have expanded to RDF 21 Div with armoured element of 22 AMX-10 25ICV and 22 fire support PAC90s.
( A bit small , some additional armour I believe is needed here, M113 Arisgator might be good upgrade)

Then there is the rumoured mechanised div. If this is formed then it will need more IFVs( 360~400 Bionix?), remember the 54 Primus SPH.
One such div will need two Bn of Primus i.e. 36 Primus.

My point is , if indeed going have mechanised div , we do indeed need more IFVs and if Bionix is to replace the M113, then it will be foolish for SAF to upgrade some M113 to Ultra in the first place which is completed just before the introduction of Bionix.

ceecookie SG

i think they are vulneral to anti-tank machine guns and the Soviet SWATTER Antitank Guided Missile.am i right? Laughing

gary1910 SG

Even though the armour protection is classified but it well known the Bionix is heavily armoured with applique armour(Mexas?) and with a steel hull.

In term armour protection, it is the best in SEA.

With that in mind, I believe it could withstand at least up to 30mm APFSDS maybe more, but against ATGM which is designed to destroy MBTs , i dun think it could survive that.

ditzy SG

After working with it, frankly, theres a much higher chance of armour penetration if you could curse the driver to crash into an angsana tree. Laughing

bcoy SG

The V200s are still being used by certain Guards units in the mechanised infantry role.

Fairyland SG

Now that makes some sense! Thanks Gary. You know me? I think so.