AK-47 outguns M16...for REAL

John Ching SG

For those who have used an AK assault rifle, its a piece of art. Mr. Green
The firepower from an AK does outgun that of a M16/M4. Twisted Evil
However, the effective range of an AK is shorter then that of a M16/M4. Evil or Very Mad
And its definitely not a weapon for CQB. Sad

Gun SG

A good measure how AK47 won respect from pro-Western militaries is the Israeli Defence Force. IDF has been using a variant of AK47 or Galil in large scale.

palmerised SG

it can be used as a weapon for mout operations if the operator is trained in it...

Meremere SG

Norinco M16 copy:

the.raven SG

I get what u mean, but AK 47 jams less than M16 right, + fire power and firing rate shouild be different? so how does it work?

lets say I use M16 shoot at an opfor, the opfor will see me firing at him with an AK, but m16 and AK different properties yet in my hands I am using m16 and in opfor's view I am using AK. omgwtF? this is the paradox of the century.

John Ching SG

Yup! You can do so provided you can customize the AKs like those featured in the pictures. Otherwise, using it in a real MOUT situation runs a high risk of shooting into civilians by accident. Neutral

palmerised SG

i don't know about the 7.62 cal but apparently the 9mm's penetration power is higher than that of the 5.56 so ususally when my friends in the us go on ops, they'll use the latter round rather than the 9mm.. you don't want to over-penetrate now would you? Mr. Green

tvdog SG

Actually, I thought it is more suited to CQB than the M-16. It is shorter, especially with the butt folded. And the 7.62x39 round has more penetration than 5.56 so can penetrate wooden doors or body armour better. And I suspect because of the heavier weight it is more controllable in full auto. Its bullet also has more knock down power and in a close situation is more effective at stopping or knocking down your enemy than the light 5.56 bullet.

And reliability is so much more crucial in CQB. If your weapon jams in close contact with enemy you're a dead duck.

The only drawback I can think of is that the noise from the AK-47 will be even louder than the M-16. You would be quite deaf from firing the AK-47 indoors!

dragonstar SG

Ha .. ha .. ha .. good joke. 9mm higher penetration than 5.56mm indeed. Ceteris paribus, there is no way that can be true. Which 9mm and 5.56 cartridge are you refering to? 9x19 and 5.56x45?

palmerised SG

the ones used in mp5s and m4s

dragonstar SG

Then you are wrong.

9mm 124 grain FMJ @319mps requires Type IIA armour protection
9mm 124 grain FMJ @366mps requires Type II armour protection
9mm 124 grain FMJ @427mps requires Type IIIA armour protection

Standard 5.56 requires Type III armour protection
AP 5.56 requires Type IV armour protection

So which has more penetration power?

LazerLordz SG

Lighter, slimmer bullet..more penetrating power due to entry profile and speed of entry.

SpecOps87 SG

Sidetrack alittle,anyone know if rounds can penetrate the Ballistic Shield?

And if bullet vests are to be used to defeat .50cal rounds,what level should it be?

Lastly,whats the difference between Trauma plate inserts for the kevlar vests Ceramic plate inserts and Strikeface inserts for the vests?Which type is used for what.( And why are strikeface plates always printed with "Handle With Care"Do Not Drop. )

Please help me also by naming the difference inserts for the ballistic vests and what is its purpose.Thanks!!!

ditzy SG

.50 calibre rounds leh. You know .50 calibre rounds are available in armour piercing versions and is in use with the saf. They are black colour tipped and used against armoured vehicles, so you can go figure out what can stop that kind of penetration power. Laughing

Strikeplates made of metal are designed and manufactured for just one purpose. The way they are made encompasses years of research and study on metals. How they are treated to suit various applications. This involves playing around with the structural postioning of molecules to the micro level. Say for example, some metals are designed for ductility and even a little impact loading might cause its whole structural integerity to change, thereby causing castastrophic failure.

Having done failure analysis before, I've dropped perfect ball bearings, and put them to use. It doesn't look at all damaged to the naked eye. But if you run it and do a full natural frequency response test on it. It just indicates that it ain't running proper. Laughing

John Ching SG

Hi! Well, 9mm penetration power is good to a limited distance while a 5.56 has a better penetration power to a greater distance but its not always reliable. Therefore, a new ammo is being developed & tested by Green Berets, 6.8mm, which should be in used by the U.S military next year. Mr. Green

I'm not sure about your friends information on the U.S police but if you've watched the recent news about U.S, you'll noticed the cops are carrying M4s. Wink

John Ching SG

Ah! You're talking more about the comfort for the firer then the accomplishment of the objective. Smile
7.62 has high penetration power, meaning that in a CQB, you've have a high chance of killing the civilian standing behind the bad guy. Embarassed
Yes, other weapons may not be reliable thats why you should carry a spare arm. Twisted Evil
As for the worry about body armour, go for head shots or use explosive rounds( not very safe to firer either ).

palmerised SG

well i may be wrong then.. my bad. anyway, that's what i said, 6.8mm cal developed not too long ago.. are you SURE that the SF are testing it..? cause i know guys who've shot the thing and they're not sf.

palmer out.

palmerised SG

oh one more thing, those kalishnikovs fitted with eotech hds are SWEEEET… i’m sure you guys know about eotechs yes? not sure if our units employ eotech’s sights but malaysia’s paskau (pasukan khas udara) uses them..

Meremere SG

http://www.eotech-inc.com/

LazerLordz SG

I suppose you were talking about this?
A new marriage between a sniper and an assault rifle...
=======================================================
While we're on the subject of the 6.8x43mm SPC (Special Purpose Cartridge)/6.8 Rem SPC, Remington Arms has just introduced their 6.8mm SPC "Light Tactical Rifle" (LTR). The Remington 6.8mm SPC Light Tactical Rifle (LTR) is a bolt action medium-range sniper rifle appears to be based on the Remington Model 700 short action.

The 6.8x43mm SPC/6.8mm SPC and Reminton Model 700P Light Tactical Rifle (LTR) is an interesting marriage, and should prove quite affective for short to medium-range interdiction (sniping) in urban environments. It should prove particularly effective in the hands of law enforcement (LE) SWAT snipers. It would seem logical that the 6.8x43mm can effectively bridge the terminal-performance gap between the 5.56x45mm (.223) and 7.62x51mm (.30 Cool . The 6.8mm SPC can neutralize threats more quickly than the 5.56mm (non-central nervous system shots) while reducing the risk of target overpenetration associated with the 7.62x51mm (.30 Cool cartridge. Reducing this risk is particularly important for law enforcement agencies, which always strive to...

reduce collateral damage (i.e injury or death to innocent persons) while conducting hostage rescue operations and armed-threat neutralization operations.

Gary Paul Johnston, whom I quoted in my previous article, has written an excellent and informative piece on the Remington 6.8mm SPC Light Tactical Rifle (LTR) for the November 2004 issue of "Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement Magazine" (GWLE). The Remington 6.8mm SPC Model 700P Light Tactical Rifle (LTR) that Mr. Johnston reviewed was, according to the information provided in the article, outfitted with a Leupold Mark 4 Long Range/Tactical (LR/T) 3.5-10x42mm Police Tactical Scope on a one-piece base, D.D. Ross Company Tactical Sling, and Harris Engineering Bipod. The one-piece base in the article might actually be a one-piece M1913 rail base from Mounting Solutions Plus, and an ARMS Throw Lever mount might have been used to secure the scope, but we're not sure.

Remington Arms Law Enforcment (LE) and Federal Agencies division can be contacted by phone at 336-548-8899, or toll-free at 800-243-9700. For military units or law enforcement (LE) organizations, the best points of contact are Brian Felter and Dewayne Mounce. Brian is Remington's Federal Agencies division manager, and can be contacted at 301-855-9484 (Office), or 336-209-4317 (Cell). Dewayne is Remington's Law Enforcement Specialist, and can be reached at ext. 8796 (main number), or Government toll free at 800-852-7634.

You can contact Leupold & Stevens, Inc. at 503-526-1400.

Click here to read a press release on the Leupold Mark 4 Long Range/Tactical (LR/T) Riflescope Line. It's in PDF format.

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