Takedown

last SG · 2004-08-24T23:13:05+00:00

BTW, remember the American shoe bomber ( almost ) aka dirty bomber, John Walker? His shoe bomb contained dirty nuclear atoms & his detonating device was...

baer SG

Okay this is gonna be controversial. In the vein of the Pentagon consultanting Hollywood scriptwriters on worst case senarios.

If a technical competent terrorist cell/unit (2 x 4 men) wants to takedown/disrupt a developed city state like Hong Kong or Singapore,
What could it do?

NO, REPEAT NO MILITARY DATA WHICH YOU MAY BE PRIVY TO MAY BE USED! (unless you wanna test CID/MSD's interrogration methods).

This is not an excerise on how much technical information you may have access to (beware the Official Secrets Act); but what are the vunerable spots in Singapore.

Sample topics:
communications
food/water supply
community
psychological

This is a kind of total defence worklist, to see if the boys & girls on the case have thought this through enuff.

(now to expect that midnight phone call...)

SibeiSuayKia SG

A terrorist , its very simple....using the same old blackout in HDB flats and storm parliament.

If there were terrorists in SG who have not been caught and have access to this etc..

HK , taiwan , japan and CHINA , korea do not have to worry about terrorists
but we have to..as a matter of fact due to some facts which is pretty sensitive to mention here

Noeyessee SG

car bombs goes off anywhere...causeway..suntec city...
geylang Laughing

1 goes off and it will panic all the way..

SibeiSuayKia SG

With regards to terrorism , their damage is very minimal in comparison to full scale wars..like WWII and WWI..

Bomb here bomb there at most lose a few hundred lives..

With reference to major wars..thousands..and thousands die..

Perhaps we could install a fixed Stinger-Missile Launcher at the top of UOB Plaza??

HaHaHa...or probably Igla..or Rapier..or any Oerlikon Aa guns..den if anyone wanna pilot a airliner..

Grampa Simpson SG

One of which i think are effective but can be done by careful planning … These guys work with SMRT as maintenance workers for the trains . Plant a c-4 below the train where the “wheels” are (no matter big or small the weight of c-4 used , it will work ) . During rush hour , people going to work …. BOOM ! . Just what i think cos i take train often and think of the possibilities the terrorists can have .

SpecOps87 SG

Ok,lets see.What if some tangos working in cells,manage to get their cars parked in the carparks at various spots in the Suntec City and Suntec Convention centre.And at the same time,if you people noticed,when there is a fire alarm going off at Suntec,all the shutters will come down.So besides planting vehicle bombs,these same tangos were to enter the centre itself and plant even more bombs,in dustbins,below phone booths,vents,toilets etc...and later,detonate those in the carpark 1st.once the shutters are down,click the remaining bombs off.How many people would have died?You do the maths.It will cook off like some furnace.

Next,Citylink.Densely populated during weekends,what if so happen that the tangos plant C4/Semtex and affix ball bearings on the charges at stragetic points,pillars,lights,glass windows/frames etc...Click off the explosives,seal the entrances and exits and then chaos will regin.

Lastly,the tunnels we use day to day.To be really honest,I have always had this fear about tunnels.Think of Sylvester Stallone's Daylight.How many people will be able to escape?Morning rush hour,some tango decides to drive a friggin explosive and fuel-laden fuel tanker and blow it up.The people in there will be trapped with no where to run.And with the ragin fire,will consume Oxygen,those who were lucky to escape the initial blast may not survive from carbon monoxide/ carbon dioxide poisoning.And may infact also have to fight drowning in the tunnel if some major water/sewage pipes burst.

This are just some of my fears.And would hope that if any of the authorities would form a special taskforce to prevent and prevent major diasatorous loss of life.Please feel free to add any comments you may have.Thanks!!! Very Happy

baer SG

Not bad ideas, recap

Underpass - citylink, orchard underpass, Taka-Lucky Plaza underpass - easy to deploy, but limited to 50-200 ppl. Mode - small blast, fire & smoke.

Pedestrian Bridges - used to be Far East, now less, Stadium no longer after Nicholl Highway collasped and PA field closed.

Suntec - too big, too many open spaces and exits. Mode fire - limited spread

CTE - disruption as no alternative routes, too big, lots of alt escape routes etc (unlike Broklyn tunnel in the movie "daylight".) Anyway to have both ends collaspe is physical impossibility, see Nicholl highway inquest. Simpler to collaspe just before exits to force a massive traffic jam. CTE has numerous escape routes and links to ajoining tunnel.

MRT - C4 charge on track, you have been watching too many movies, experts will tell you that you need a proper denotator with a 6,000 ft per sec (fps) shockwave to initate explosion, our MRT barely makes I guess only 20 fps. Easier to have someone stoopid to drop his wallet on track and try to retireve it by climbing down the track (I have a more sinister twist which is classified).

HP network - a small 'pinch' to trip some base stations and create a 'blackhole' if done properly create a wave effect which will not necessarily shut down the entire network, just force enuff ppl to get distressed and overload other systems (land lines etc).

more to come..

SnowFlag SG

hmmm...is baer trying to communicate to his terrorist friends Mr. Green

Fairyland SG

If I wanted to cause panic in city state like HK or Singapore......

No need to set off bombs. Logistics is too much trouble and then you get to do it once at most twice.

No with 4 men.....much easier to put poison in drinks at supermart and advertise it openly without getting caught!

Today Fresh Milk, tomorrow toilet paper, next day rice........

No one dare to eat already. News agencies will have a field day!

Same effect if not worst than SARS.

[email protected] SG

terrorists! read this thread! lotsa ideas for you to adopt! dun even need to think, our dear citizens are helping u think of ideas to attack our own home country!

meander SG

How the heck are you going to get all the explosives needed given that : internally, explosive ordinance is very tightly controlled; and externally, all entry points to Singapore Aiport/Causeway/TMFT all have those specially trained dogs to sniff out explosives ?

Your City scenario is a little unrealistic. Terrorists going around afixing PE (plastic explosive) to key structural points, and no one notices in a crowded area ?! Even if they don't, major shopping centers employ security guards that have probably been briefed about this kind of scenarios after the 911 incident. And contrary to what's in the movies, riggging explosives isn't that easy. IMO it's kinda hard to do remote detonation in the city due to the emission from HPs. The detonator might go off the moment the bugger uncovers it, killing him but failing to trigger the PE.

Even if the recent "test" run by the govt shows that singaporean are oblivious to these terrorism threats, things like "afixing ball bearing to charges" are way to blatent to miss. There are lots of specs/officers and even men that have been trained by the army in basic explosives that could recognise this threat.

Our Underground tunnels probably have automated fire control mechanisms (ie sprinklers) that can contain most fires until CDF reaches the scene. I'm only guessing here but I don't think govt would build a tunnel w/o thinking of that. In any case, it's rather hard to get a oil tanker in the first place ? Law also decrees that no vehicle(s) carrying flammable/explosive/chemical ordinance are allowed to enter tunnels. Furthermore an uncountable number of cameras are installed on all major expressways, and they are monitored 24/7. With this system it's possible to trace any vehicle that has been "marked" as dangerous and stop it.

*****

Having said that, I feel that it's possible to sneak underground and set up explosives to weaken the foundation of building sufficiently to cause it to collapse.

Also possible is the classic lone luggage/bag with a timed explosive inside that the MRT stations/trains announcements every 10 minutes are warning us about. Too many people are simply too bo chap and ignore all these things. Place them in a library/school and it's 10 times worse. There are students leaving bags around all the time and no one really cares.

baer SG

yeah lah! doing it using the faulty gene way.

just enuff disinformation disguised as the real thing to set you all up, alos known as the "honey pot".

SpecOps87 SG

meander,please be realistic.You really honestly think that our customs and security checks are that secure?Let me ask you this,what if the materials are brought in with the help of foreign missions and thus such items have what we call diplomatic immunity.And 2,what if its conducted by our very own crazed and highly trained and equipped people?

Lets face the true and blunt facts here alright,look at those NS men deployed at Airports,Seaports,Jurong Island Checkpoints.Do they look the slightest bit alert to you?They look anything but alert to me.Seriously,I have witnessed the earlier batch holding their weapons with their f**king fingers in the f**king trigger guard whilst on patrol,does that make you a wee bit safe?Lets face it,no matter how secure a place is,no matter how unknown the place is,no matter how good and strong you security and defence forces are,if someone is willing to take up the challange and rise up to the challange,they will try whatever ways and means to accomplish their goals regardless of the costs,simply due to that fact that they are all determined and have nothing to lose.

The 21st century Modern terrorist/insurgents/rebels we face are people who have fixed objectives and are willing to be scarficed for their cause.Lets put this out to all the military people,regulars and NSFs,what do they want.A peaceful and calm environment.But these tangos are not,they are seeking a whole new revolution and as such have a reason.I even hear of NSFs saying that the friggin 2 yrs they spend are just a waste of time and is a time for slacking.I certainly feel very very sorry for the country when I hear that.Although I must definitely agree that there are people who are willing to lay down their lives for the nation,but how many are really willing to do so in a heartbeat?

Another food for thought,realise that Pulau Bukom is a highly combustible island as its an oil refinery,imagine one fine day some tango equipped with a couple of RPGs or ATGMs together with a good buddy of his,floating off shore from Bukom.He takes sight and send a friggin' RPG or ATGM aimed directly at one of those big round fuel containers,what have you got?A chain reaction being set off.And how are our defence forces able to prevent that?I have no idea what maesures are in place,but I do suggest that they throw a "no-go"zone around the island and have it patrolled regularly.Also related,we often see those oil tankers bringing fuel to be refined or taking on fuel at Bukom,so what if our tango bastards manage to hijack one of these,plant a friggin' bomb on it sail towards the port and KABOOM it?We have another diasater.Solution?Allow only registered ships to berth at Bukom,and before breaching the "no-go" zone,have navy,coast guartd,NDU,SOF,CDO personnel board and carry out an inspection and escort the ship in,so that if it tries any hanky panky business,they can be tackled immediately.

Next Changi Airport,if there are some tango who's armed with say a Stinger,Red-eye or Igla man-portable SAM and decides to strike one of the 747s coming in to land at our world class airport, and fate has it that the bastard succeeds and down the 747 comes,what are we ever gonna do man?I really wonder.

The above scenarios are very very real and could happen to any countrey in the world.So I do hope that the authorities see this posting and take the revalent precautionary measures.

storywolf SG

"How the heck are you going to get all the explosives needed given that : internally, explosive ordinance is very tightly controlled; and externally, all entry points to Singapore Aiport/Causeway/TMFT all have those specially trained dogs to sniff out explosives ?"

Make them, they have the standard issue osama handbook , which can be found in internet. Make is not too hard, someone with a little physic knowledge can follow easily only. But need to make huge amount which mean a long time.

"Your City scenario is a little unrealistic. Terrorists going around afixing PE (plastic explosive) to key structural points, and no one notices in a crowded area ?! Even if they don't, major shopping centers employ security guards that have probably been briefed about this kind of scenarios after the 911 incident. And contrary to what's in the movies, riggging explosives isn't that easy. IMO it's kinda hard to do remote detonation in the city due to the emission from HPs. The detonator might go off the moment the bugger uncovers it, killing him but failing to trigger the PE. "

Well things are often go un-notice, so cannot say never. Remote Detonation is not hard, a lot of stuff can be use to convert to the trigger device. The only thing is the huge amount of self-make explosive is needed, that mean must be a vehicle.

"Our Underground tunnels probably have automated fire control mechanisms (ie sprinklers) that can contain most fires until CDF reaches the scene. I'm only guessing here but I don't think govt would build a tunnel w/o thinking of that. In any case, it's rather hard to get a oil tanker in the first place ? Law also decrees that no vehicle(s) carrying flammable/explosive/chemical ordinance are allowed to enter tunnels. Furthermore an uncountable number of cameras are installed on all major expressways, and they are monitored 24/7. With this system it's possible to trace any vehicle that has been "marked" as dangerous and stop it. "

For a vehicle with flammable/explosive..... to suddenly go wrongly onto the road to tunnel, can happen. Don't think there is time or way to stop it on time.

SlowPoke SG

major blunder edited. Failing eyesight, sign of old age perhaps.

SpecOps87 SG

SlowPoke,no hard feelings.But perhaps you did not understand what I meant.Their fingers were inside the trigger guard and not outside.Inside meaning their trigger finger is touching the trigger.

And please,I am trained and I dare say that I'm qualified in the handling of the M-16 and SAR-21.So,please read properly,and not jump to conclusions based on you assumptions.

SlowPoke SG

major oops for me, sorry bro

rongshao85 SG

i believe the terrorists will use the blackout as the 1st attack.. then slowly get into military installations.. Rolling Eyes

SibeiSuayKia SG

military installation not really well guarded =/

only got fencing niah..if people really determined will use ladder climb thru and hijack some tanks??

With regards to jurong port attack , there is a safety buffer, and i don't think you can get pass the stealth frigate and coast guard even with a sampan..
even illegal immigrant got problem.

And what makes u think that our oil refinery is only protected by a thin sheet of metal ? IMHO it has thick enough to resist gunfire..etc etc..

with regards to airliner , now they are being installed with missile tracker , chaffs, flares..electronics counter measure =D

but firstly they can bring stinger in first anot??

Generally , those terrorists got nothing much against us chinese in comparison to jews..in their eyes , we're the same as any other asians like TW and

On the top of the terrorist's striking agenda, i believe we're probably on the last but we should not let our guard down . our jurong island area has 24/7 gurkhas protection and airport also got..

rongshao85 SG

how come u know so much things about singapore impt places?? are u a member of the CIA?? lol..