Time to arrest fall in quality of training of SAF conscripts

Joshua1975 SG

Someone say new tech, new something something. Whatever new 'TOYS' or 3G we are heading to, it still goes down to the man on the ground.
Be it 20mths, 24mths or 30mths of NS, if no one is there to impart the knowledge of a basic soldiering skill, I give you 30 years also no point.

SAF had being saying thinking soldier for long time or my time than till now but how many thinking soldier did we see?

I had seen not much. Example during my last 2 year service in ATEC as OPFOR. During an attack we like to take out the PL SGT 1st, Sect Comd, OC, PC. Let 4get the office 1st. When ever a Sect Comd is down, I will just see a section of sotong, lost dun know what to do next, no one take over comd. WHY? Thanks whoever up there we are just having ATEC Ex.

By just going up a level, I see a PL of sotong.

Old regular are leaving, new one are not motivated how to have quality training to the men? I remember a quote something goes like this:"What we lost out in Quantity, we will make it up in Quality" It was in the old SAFINCO and if I am not wrong, it was said by LKY.
Yup, we make it up in the hardware quality and forget the man, the operator quality.

tspg SG

You have made a very good point there. Man will also be men they will just wait for orders. It's the NCO's who will make the difference because they are the backbone of the army. When the regulars left, the NSFs who were given local rank to fill their place but most simply cannot make it. I think SAF should seriously do something about the departure of these old regulars.

Joshua1975 SG

That how you look at the men Rolling Eyes That how you train your men... wait for order!!!
Thinking soldier are to react to situation and not wait for order. During the assault, sect comd got KIA, section 2IC are to take over, 2IC down than group IC take over and complete, over run the enemy and not wait for order. wait down there will just be sitting duck.

maybe read again

Originally posted by Joshua1975:
SAF had being saying thinking soldier for long time or my time than till now but how many thinking soldier did we see?

I had seen not much. Example during my last 2 year service in ATEC as OPFOR. During an attack we like to take out the PL SGT 1st, Sect Comd, OC, PC. Let 4get the office 1st. When ever a Sect Comd is down, I will just see a section of sotong, lost dun know what to do next, no one take over comd. WHY? Thanks whoever up there we are just having ATEC Ex.

By just going up a level, I see a PL of sotong.

Old regular are leaving, new one are not motivated how to have quality training to the men? I remember a quote something goes like this:"What we lost out in Quantity, we will make it up in Quality" It was in the old SAFINCO and if I am not wrong, it was said by LKY.
Yup, we make it up in the hardware quality and forget the man, the operator quality.

many are very self motivated and has a good job done thinking, a job satisfaction feelling... how long can one go on just base on self motivation without any recognition from the top. Rolling Eyes

tspg SG

Hmmm.... when the men dun take any action there could be two possibilities Confused

1 They are poorly train really dun know what to do.

2 Simply bo-chap dun want to take over resposibilities.

Hopefully its no 2. At least in an actual battle where it is kill or be killed, somebody with the ability will stand up and organised the fight.

Joshua1975 SG

Shi Si Chow Ying Xiong ~ situation make hero

meander SG

super off topic ... but .. I LOVE THE NINJA VANS !!! who needs combat rations ...

btw, the PS is trained to take over the PC. So when the PC is down it's still not that bad as the reserve sec-com will take over PS roles.

It's when the sec-coms in FRONT, those right in the firefight, that get killed that chaos happens. Man blur liao can kan cheong and cross fire etc etc.

But the most impt man has to be the OC (although it sounds damn obvious). Why? Because OC gets orders from CO to execute the overall Battalion plan. Once the OC is down, the 2IC (usually with the 84 team) is too far to take over immediately. During which the PCs can lose their sense of direction, or fail to execute impt last minute orders, causing the entire bn mission to fail.

And that makes the 2 OC runners damn important people too.

baer SG

I share the same viewpoint as above.

We have the brains, just not in the right places. Our officers are taught (rather browbeaten) in OCS to obey orders by example and to give orders within the confines of their given orders from above. Necessary if you want to storm "hamburger hill" type objective. discipline is important, never doubt that.

However we all have the "Bo chap" attitude to soldering. My own men (sect 2 pioneer platoon XX SIR) are good. We work like dogs when on excercise (27 hours straight digging BCP), drink the mess dry during last in-camp but are never oblivious to the fact that, when war comes, the price to be paid will be in blood. Our PC can be 'blur' at times. Good at solving technical issues like placement and tonnage of TNT to use (yes, we count in 100x kg), but can be 'see bay blur' when come to motivation or nose in mud issues (no offence intended). Our PS is ranger reject, some sect cmdr better than others. When the balloon goes up we will be there, count on it.

In all honesty, no one (except our gung ho CSM) has burning desire to do more than what our SAF 100 requires. Come war, some will run, many will fall but from the rest we will get our act together and win the war. Just how many of us will be left standing and how much damage is done to the enemy should be the main and ultimately only thing to keep the sighting post on.

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