NS down to 2 years from Dec 04

last SG · 2004-06-15T18:40:14+00:00

so good ah? means wat? 1 yr 10 mths for those without PTP?

Parka SG

Maybe they realised that the economy would be better with people working than `keng-ing`.

Laughing

thoreldan SG

when i was still serving my ns, heard rumours that ns will be extended to 3 years.

now they changing to 2 years instead, really glad for my 2 younger brothers.

anyway, i believe the whole structure would be changed in the SAF now.

eg) an infantry spec take like 6-7months from a recruit to a 3SG, then join an infantry unit for the next 2year for one whole mono-intake. If now they ord 6 months eariler, the unit will need a new batch of specs. it wouldnt be easy for men and spec to gel up quickly and imagine the result of ATEC.

*Shrug* maybe i am thinking too much , hahahaha. Still Cheers for all the new soldiers!!

dkhoo SG

This is a very huge change that will be phased in gradually. All current NSFs who need to serve 2 years 6 months (including current disruptees) get an immediate two month reduction in service requirement, to an earliest ORD date of 30 June 2004. (That means that you need to serve only 4 months on your return from your studies, Leo_is_me.) Those enlisting in the July 2004 to November 2004 batches will get a 4 month reduction (i.e. 2 years 2 months). Those enlisting with the December 2004 batch or later will all serve 2 years. There is an 8-week reduction for scoring a silver or better in NAPFA to a minimum of 1 year 10 months.

I am not so sure this is a good idea. This particularly affects the training of officers. The training of specialists and certain difficult vocations (like commandoes) will also be made very hard. There will barely be enough time for these people to gel together with their unit before they ORD, since their training takes so long. This may actually undermine moves toward a 3G force.

Maybe SAF is moving toward a flatter command structure with fewer officers? Or will improved training technology step in to help? Maybe officers, specialists and the tough vocations can be trained on the job (OTJ)?

For example, officer cadets could receive a relatively short 10-15 week primer course at OCS. After this course, they are sent to their eventual unit and shadow a particular officer. This officer will be their mentor and responsible for completing their training. This will be like a correspondence course with CAI technology. These cadets should even go to ATEC as a cadet and lead men there in a section commander or platoon sergeant role. After 6 months or so, they could return to OCS for a few weeks of summary exercises and final prociency tests before receiving their commissions and returning to their unit. Cadets who drop out will still return to their unit, but as specialists. Actually, this form of training might be even better than the current 42-week OCS. At least the new 2LT will be less blur about unit life and will have met the men he is to lead and know what they expect of him. In this way, the officer will be able to gel with his unit earlier, and training in the units might also be improved.

Regardless, this is a huge change. My head is spinning thinking of the connotations. This is the first time both commanders and men have the same length of NS. Before the 2.5 years for corporals and above, it was 3 years for officers and 2 years for WOSEs. The difference in time it takes to train commanders vs men will have many manpower officers tearing their hair out. Let's see what will happen.

Parka SG

It's good for the people and economy!!!

Time is cheap in SAF!

Parka SG

It's good for the people and economy!!!

Time is cheap in SAF!

Joshua1975 SG

Har after 3 to 5 years where number go down maybe a 3 years will come by than and sure be it will than that time we will post here again kay Mr. Green

kopiosatu SG

lesser months, lesser pay to NSF...

more BONUS!!!! Mr. Green

|-|05| SG

hmm...maybe saving money now for the later years when they need to have 3 years!

deathscythe99 SG

No they wont increase. @ least not stated yet.

deathscythe99 SG

It sure has. Wink

Imagine, having 1 yr totally devoted to training and another year to be fully ops. Not forgetting the various stuff one has to undergo @ the different units, plus the leave you have. So esp. for those having NAPFA Gold, 1yr 10 mths is pretty good deal. Downside is, what will you do once you come out? Work b4 gg into uni?

For me, affected also. Quite sian....wish to sign on for 2 more mths.

deathscythe99 SG

This is in anticipation for the 2006 batch which is the Dragon baby batch aka Baby Boom. Thus, I think they may increase after this batch Wink

My 2 cents worth

ah_tee SG

dec? weird weird weird

cos CO jus now says sept hmmm......

tripwire SG

wanna see the NS drop to 1 year only??

its quite simple.... and very enjoyable too....

just make your women have lots of babies... like 10 babies per women.... Mr. Green

before you knew it... even reservist trainning would be cut back because all the camp full house...

BaByBoY SG

i tmd lugi lehz..
i ord this aug.. clearin already..
then they say wanna cut my ord date when i can be at home kiao kah...

BaByBoY SG

++ tt also means i`ll get 2 mths short of allowence lehz.. tmd unfair and my off and leave all store until last 2 mths then use..all wasted.. they tmd wanna keng my allowance away…

wuming78 SG

its not 3 years.. they jus start drafting gals. Wink

zenden9 SG

WOW! PAP so fast? Already preparing for the 2007 election. Not like last time,last minute then give some honey for the voters.

LazerLordz SG

Two things can be gleaned from this.

Firstly, I would think that MINDEF's budget is quite tight, especially with the allocation of funds towards the so-called 3G programmes.Cal me a cynic but I think we do not have an adequate number of really professional troops who will execute the new wave of warfare effectively yet.RMA is not a easy task for the management to implement across the board in such a short time.I think RMA has been in place since the early-mid 1990s and we are only beginning to see the fruits of it, esp in the integration of C4I and ISR technolgies and the battlefield WAN in our own armed forces.If they are going down this path, it would make sense financially to cut down on us NSFs, for it really is quite a drain on the military budget.In a microcosm, we are like a welfare state.NSFs may get low pay but their sheer numbers do impose a particular constraint to how much MINDEF can spend for its own plans.Dragon baby intake notwithstanding, if they base the liability duration purely on the grounds of numbers, it would lead to a roller-coaster ride for NSFs born in different years, thus leading to some which serve less and some which serve more. This is likely to casue friction.

Secondly, this is one of the few instances where SAF decides to present a plan of action and it is implemented almost instantly..Hardly common don't you think.Why is this so..we can only look on and wait and see.

vaxjunior SG

I agree that this is indeed one of the fastest and most widely felt HR policy to be implemented in Singapore...I thot it was a joke when I heard it on the car radio. Like some, I was hearing rumors of extended NS liability during my time before going in (1990).

But like many who have noted it, my first thoughts were on its impact on the training programs. I have not kept up with all the training changes especially for the specs level but I seriously think that unless extensive makeover is done something like what drkhoo suggested (more OJT and shorter formal course time) then it will really be a problem for units especially operational ones to remain functional (technology aside - it is the warm bodies that make the 3G work).

I remember the time we had to work together especially prepare and train for all the exercises in 3Sig made all the difference. The newbirds can not really be as effective as the old birds and the only diff between us was the one year that they had in the operational unit's environment. In fact, some of my men were relatively more effective during the first few months and esp the first Mousedeer exercise as they reached the unit before us.

This sort of reminded me of one article posted here or somewhere else about how Germany had more advanced tech but simply lost WW2 due to the sheer number of warm bodies that the Allies had. (Winters of the BOB fame gave the same reason why lousy commanders remained in the force at that time -- you need the warm bodies).

Overall - the budget issue is something that is real but given that economies go through cycles and the money apportioned to defence is relatively stable, this also doesn't really form the basis of a credible argument.

Then again, as a father I am damn glad Laughing it has been reduced. Now I am waiting for some shocker news few years down the road that my daughter may need to be enlisted... Crying or Very sad

just my 2 cents.

Icemoon SG

I'm replying panzerjager's post in another topic which has been closed (it is a duplicate topic).

In no way is the average Singaporean soldier expected to be operationally proficient in 2 years of NS. SAF is really blockheaded and 'yes-manned' enough to be 'forced' into this arrangement. Operationally ready is one thing, operationally proficient is another. And that definitely takes minimum of 30 months, this includes FIBUA, FOFO, mine-setting/laying, booby-trapping, CD, laying ambush, basic jungle survival, skill-at-arms, unarmed combat etc Will the average soldier be proficient in all those above and more in 24 months??? No way!!!

The impression I get from reading his reply is ... pardon me ... it is crap.

He seems to ignore the fact that under the current system, the traditional soldier, the hokkien pengs ONLY serve 2 years. It has been like this for dunno how long. The skills he described are just the traditional soldiering skills, ie. infantry skills. So I'm not wrong in using the hokkien pengs as my counter-example.

The mono-intake is structured to cater for 2 years NS liability. IMHO, he shouldn't curse and swear at the Defense Minister if his problem is actually with the current system.

PS: Sorry, I just have to support the Defense Minister. 'Cos he is also my MP. Maybe I need him to write my deferment letter next time. Mr. Green

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