NS down to 2 years from Dec 04

last SG · 2004-06-15T18:40:14+00:00

so good ah? means wat? 1 yr 10 mths for those without PTP?

Icemoon SG

The crux of the problem lies with the 2.5 years soldiers who never ORD with the unit.

Freaking hell ... if they just let them serve 2 years ... ALL the problem will be solved.

clarencebk SG

Pardon me but i cannot see wat you disagree on.
I'm saying the 6mths is a waste of time doing sai kang and from wat u wrote, you seems to agree.
Maybe i'm stupid Embarassed

Another point to note, the unit is having a dilema, they have a half year window of slack period becos they could not intergrate the oldbirds with the new birds thus they prefer not to have any intake during that window, instead wait til the old ones ord then start training new ones again. Often they will also take the chance to clean up abit, repair abit and the old birds being the the only free strength (after completing their training with the LCPs who already ORDed) are arrowed to do all the shit work. Isnt that cmpletely waste of talents? and actually that 1/2 yr window is actually unnecessary except for wasting SAF resourses instead of optimizing it.
(pardon me, i think its late now and im babblering)
Do correct me if im wrong.

clarencebk SG

Originally posted by Moxie:
[b]Clarencebk, I'm ex-Arty so here's my comment to your post; I dunno how utilitarian it was to other Formations, or if it's still relevant today, or whether it was different in the 1970's. But from my own experience, I've always interpreted that everything - inc. 2 or 2.5 years' conscription - is oriented around a feasible training period for operational status, which is (was?) chronologically 1.5 years for an Arty unit. That's the period when soldiers of various vocations would come together to work as an integrated whole.

1stly, to NathanG5, Thanks for the info, its was very informative.

To Moxie:
I'm not from an operational unit so i cant really comment much with regards to the operational status.
However from wat i know, with the current new training plans and simulators and the higher education of troops, i'm sure the training process can be shorten by a month or 2 at least. For officers to intergrate with the the men, i agree with the training system as suggested by dkhoo.
By using that system, SAF would be optimizing this change of policy and in keeping up with times. I personally has seen so many time that officers trying so hard to get accepted by their men but often failed. Its sad cos as demonstrated in "Band of Brothers". An officer who fail to command the respect of men is not fit to lead them, but unfortunately he is often the one who make the decision that will do or break the life of his mens and specs often can do nothing abt it and as a result, u see innocent men dying for nothing, dying for no good cause. In a people-scarce singapore, we can NEVER allow that to happen. We must ensure that all men are good men and are returned safely in 1 piece not 1 urn to their loved ones.

From wat i know, an NSF during his full term time is only required to know the command, structure and intergration up to the battalion level. The higher levels are left during their Reservist time. And more often then not, esp in SIR units, NSF unit will not be your NS unit, therefore the intergration with other unit is not a must during NSF time.

NathanG5 SG

sori bro..its not by me..its by miong..the nick on top of the whole quote..

Icemoon SG

From wat i know, an NSF during his full term time is only required to know the command, structure and intergration up to the battalion level. The higher levels are left during their Reservist time.

Erm, can anyone elaborate what he mean? Don't NSF units take part in brigade and division exercises too?

WAIT a minute ... clarencebk was replying to Moxie. When Moxie served his NS, there was no Combined Arms Division yet right? Haha ...

And more often then not, esp in SIR units, NSF unit will not be your NS unit, therefore the intergration with other unit is not a must during NSF time.

Yup, your unit from one or two digits become three digits.

rancour5 SG

keke..solli solli.. haha..to clarify wht i didnt agree with u on is the pt tt only SIRs have the majority of warm bodies. SARs also have more than half mono intake sodiers.

the rest i agree with you wholeheartedly as a some1 who has gone thru the F&*# up system..

also actually the low key phase is actually bcos there is usually change of leadership during this period and they need to plan for next intake. integratng old birds and new birds is not a problem as far as i can see bcos during the unit high key, u will also have some ppl toppin up battlion strength when need arises.

also i am very sure that the training phase can be further reduced because a bout 2 to 3 months per year is actually didicated to NDP preparations..hvin done it for 2 yrs..it beats me how they can take from may to august to prepare for NDP...And why cant they contract out certain aspects of it..

Moxie SG

Me & my kakis used to wonder, as our ICT stints wounded down, whether the then-newly implemented 5-month BMT (or whatever) would've forced significant adjustments to training timetables for NS operational status.

Until informed otherwise, I'm assuming this status quo hadn't changed that much since my own time in the 2nd half of the '80s - & that, even with the 2-year blanket conscription, the SAF continues to adhere that an NSF unit must train together for X years before they enter the reserves.

I'm speaking more from the Arty viewpoint, but my feeling is it shouldn't negatively affect the individual training for NCOs & other ranks (BMT, vocational plus relevant specialist courses) all that much - the new technology can, on paper, save back up to a fortnight's duration in attendance. Of course, it'll also resolve the non-NCO, 2.5-year NS "displacement" for good.

But I foresee the present 9th-month OCS term as a possibly major obstacle to adjust around; my knowledge is the cadets' schedules have always been jam-packed, so how much time is realistically saveable so that they can be posted out earlier if possible? Presumably, they're from the same Tekong intake as the Arty NCOs but - unlike the latter - they're comparatively 3 months behind in arriving to work with the gunners. Realistically, will they be mature enough to form chemistry &/or lead within a 2-year NS window, with or without a shortened OCS course?

The other probable handicap, for me, is if the NSF operational unit must switch to another system (weapon, apparatus or technology) before they ORD. If its training calendar's already reduced by 3 months from, say, 1.5 to 1.25 years to reflect the 2-year conscription, then having to additionally schedule in a conversion timetable would cut the original training cycle further, to perhaps just 1 year (for argument's sake). IMHO That'll be unfortunate; technical proficiency is one thing, but unit cooperation needs more time to gel simply cuz it's human-oriented.

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