Pictures from Iraq

Blockhead SG

hey, not sure if anybody's interested, but i came across this site which i thought some of u might want a look. It's a collection of pictures taken in Iraq, and some of the pictures really moving. Viewer discretion is advised tho, as some pics are a little gory.

I know we are all military enthusiasts here, and we are always talking abt weapons, tactics and the science of war... but sometimes its useful to have a reality check, and see what actually happens on the ground in a war. it makes me even more determined not to see such things happen here.

I know some of the pictures are a little bloody and gory. If u have a queasy stomach, u might want to give this a miss. u have been warned, so please dun come after me if u lose your lunch.

http://ob1.rajuabju.com/gallary/

ferret69 SG

Agreed. Most of the time we either are in awe of the weapons or the technology or tactics or speak of them in dry intellectual-speak. I suspect even a few of us look at pics of weapons akin to pr0n surfers ogling at bikini babes (Hey I admit I'm guilty of that when looking at warplane galleries)

Some of the more enthusiastic contributors to this forum are a tad too jingoistic for my taste personally (excellent traits for raw recruits Wink ) and I would say we have to be careful with anything close to propaganda being fed by anyone.

We tend to forget or don't even know what these weapons do to someone up close. Many veteran pilots have acknowledged that they try not to consider the man in the plane they shot down and tend to think of the planes themselves as targets; doing that can impair their trained instincts as moral judgements come into focus. I suspect many infantry riflemen have the same view prefering to think only of the "us vs them " until shown the results up close and personal (unless of course the combatants already view the individual enemy soldier as less than dogs).

We do need these constant reminder that war is a terrible thing, just or unjust (and even that is philosophically/morally debatable, what makes a just war?). We can only hope that our leaders have the balls NOT to resort to war and try to end disputes by other possible means.

Just one dead body can get pretty traumatising (ask any local police officer who had to pull out a dead person from a noose hanging from the ceiling, or those coast guard guys who have pulled out bloated bodies from the sea), multiply that by a few tens or hundreds and psychological numbness sets in.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

The purpose and intention of military weapons is to kill, let not anyone forget that. Nobody likes it to reach that point, but when it has to be used, it has to do that job well, and that is to kill so as to reduce the enemy's capacity to wage war for whatever dispute or cause there might be.

The saddest thing is that plenty fo Iraqi's sold their lives for nothing. They fought for a egomanical leader who was content to hide in a rathole while sending his people to die for no reason. And of course, now we have those jokers who think they are fighting for the grand cause of liberating Iraqi from all foreign elements when they are in reality just screwing up the future of their nation, and of course, tearing up more people for nothing.

Temujin SG

The US has eliminated Saddam.

The Iraqis are not screwing themselves, they're fighting for their homeland against foreign invader who are after Iraq's natural resources.

It's called colonisation.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

I have no problem with the Iraqi's wanting to have their own nation back, but the main problem is, they are not doing it in the smartest way.

Their natural resources are little use to them if their own country is gripped in a power vacuum, destroyed infrastructure, an infant post-Saddam political system and little law and order where places are still ruled by a gun or RPG. While I understand their asperations for their homeland, such resistance is not very rational, ultimately.

Even if they manage to drive out all foreign elements and have their own homeland back, what happens next? Who is going to stop the long oppressed majority from lashing out at the minority, and of course, what would the long dominated minority with a vested interest in getting back the old status quo stop at to get their way? Removing the foreign element now is a recipe for disaster, but of course, they can't see but five inches ahead of their faces.

Ultimately, this has every potential to turn out like the British handing over independence abruptly to India without making sure it turns out smooth. Over one million people died because of that and ultimately led to the creation of two arch rival states leading to wars that had killed more.

And of course, considering this "foreign invader" is far kinder that historical raiders and isn't exactly going to take their oil for nothing (after all, you need to build up the infrastructure of the nation in order to get its oil industries cranking again). The real question now is not if the Iraqi's (considering that besides the insurgents, quite a considerable number of them actually welcome the Americans.) should fight for their homeland but I believe, if they are doing it in even the slightly smartest way.

This is hardly, and will not turn out like Vietnam, we do not have an Iraqi Ho Chi Min or Vietcong for that matter. What we have are a bunch of differing faction with deep seated hatred for each other and different vested interests for the distruption of the current status quo in Iraqi. If they really manage to drive out the foreign elements, there is no doubt that they, now free to do whatever they want for their own interests, will turn their homeland into a place that's home to nobody.

Who suffers the most? The ordinary Iraqi.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Come to think of it, which faction, if they really did manage to drive out the foreigners, will eventually rule Iraq? Considering how these faction usually settle matters by force?

The guy with the biggest guns, and what will happen after that? The Iraqis are back to square one, under a singular ruling party that is ruthless to them and cares little about their lives except how to serve their own means.

ferret69 SG

Iraqi Interim Constitution
http://news.findlaw.com/usatoday/docs/iraq/30804interimconst.html
or
http://www.cpa-iraq.org/government/TAL.html

Criticism of the Iraqi Interim Constitution by Phyllis Bennis, a fellow at The Institute for Policy Studies in Washington DC.
http://www.alternatives.ca/article1171.html

Realpolitik at work.

Other enlightening readings here
http://www.fpif.org/iraq/index.php

A commentary on comparison between Vietnam and Iraq on the basis of psychology
http://www.fpif.org/commentary/2004/0404iraq-vietnam.html

And to put things in perspective for the ordinary Iraqi (civilian deaths).
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/