SAF Body Armour?

Tango1 SG

Totally agree...alot of fatalities could have been prevented in the Vietnam conflict if those careless G.I.s had (a) worn their flak vest, or (b) zipped it up...Same thing for Mogadishu...never remove the ceramic armour plate...its just plain dumb... Mr. Green

Although I think that SAF's flak vest could be made in a darker shade of green though...its still a little conspicious, given the nature of our terrain...

Si Geena SG

Body Armour is not Bullet-proof... Reason being that one can always find a round that is capable of penetrating the Armour...

While a WWII Flak Jacket, weighing 14kgs, can only stop low-level Handgun threats. Newer Man-made Fibres, like Kevlar Vest are capable of stopping Higher-Level 9mm Handgun Threats at 4-5kgs.

To stop Rifle rounds, you would require Ceramic Plates or Steel ones, depending on what is the calibre and type of round you expect to encounter. They tend to weigh 2-3 kg per piece. 2 pieces, 1 Front & 1 Back, means an additional 4-6 kg...

To stop Fragments, you would hardly require Plates. Soft Kevlar is typically capable of those.

Since the fugitives were described as possessing handguns, going in with Plates would be a bit of an overkill... not to mention very uncomfortable...

Not too sure if anyone is interested, there has been quite an uproar in US while i was there. Apparently, a couple of Policemen were injured and even killed even with the use of Armour. It seems that there were some unscrupulous Manufacturers that had not tested their vests sufficiently prior to sale.

I sure hope i do not see our Police or SAF using that Manufacturer's Products... or even me end up wearing one of those...

dragonstar SG

If memory serves me right, the bullets penetrated at the EDGE of the vest - and the manufacturer claims that the fact that the vest is vulnerable there is properly documented.

|-|05| SG

i believe it was more like they were using low quality kevlar

bot_in_shop SG

Hey! If I remember correctly, didn't the Straits Times mention that Singapore was interested in Thailand-produced bulletproof vests that were supposed to offer the same level of protection as US-made Kelvar vests but with lower costs and weight?

foga SG

is it the spider web thingy? supposedly stronger than kelvar?

Blockhead SG

I don't know if i am mistaken, but i think i read somewhere that kevlar vests have limited life-spans due to UV affecting the material or some stuff like that. It would be good if someone familiar with this could say something about this. Vests have different grades of protection, and kevlar vests alone probably provide only protection up to knives and pistol bullets (i could be wrong, again). Even then, i understand that the possibility of sustaining internal injuries is quite high due to deformation of the kevlar to absorb the energy of the round.

As such, i believe that plates provide better protection in the military context where the speed of the projectiles are a lot faster. unfortunately, weight is a price u have to pay. So, the answer is to develop lighter plates. I think that's easier said than done, tho!

Nothingie SG

think the tensile strength of spider-web is higher than steel per unit weight, but.... where u going to find so many spider to produce the tonnes of spider web that u'll need...
dun think we got the formula that our friendly neighbourhood spiderman uses to manufacture his webs....

as for the metal plates, i recall the show "black hawk down", where a guy remove the steel plate on his back saying that he won't get shot in the back cos he won't be running away from a fight...
so if we do tat too, we can reduce a bit of the weight but got to pray tat we dun get hit by "friendly fire"?

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Thai body armour uses good old slik, that is, slikworm slik which is also incredibly strong by the way to provide protection against ballastic threats.

No you probably will not sustain life threatening injuries from the deformation of your vest after it has stopped the bullet, this is because most vests are tested not to deform beyond a certain limit (1.5-2 inches) from the projectiles they are designed to stop to prevent internal blunt force trauma. You would get an angry bruise but life threatening injuries are unlikely.

Of course, you could avoid all this pain if you had a trauma plate insert, or better, a armour plate in your protection package.

As for spider silk though, it is still coming along. They are trying to get over the problems of farming spiders by using GM goats who produce the silk proteins in their milk, so there.

Si Geena SG

Well, according to reports released, the Vest had suffered from at least 20-35% Ballistic Degradation since first use. The Policeman who suffered a fatal injury had only worn his Vest for 8 months, supposedly a Brand new one as well.

It seems a bit specious of a claim to say that the EDGE Hit is the reason for the penetration. I believe that the Ballistic Degradation had much more to do with that.

And it wasn't some Low-Grade Kevlar too. It was Zylon, one of the newest Man-made fibres. When it is brand-new, it can stop High-Velocity 9mm rounds with nary a problem. And it is amazingly light and thin... However, its very vulnerable to UV and Water if i'm correct.

The nasty thing is that many Law Enforcement Agencies in US are now stuck with Brand new stocks of Zylon Armour... and their Suppliers are asking them to buy new upgrade packs. Why should the Customer pay extra for something that was supposed to work in the first place?

panzerjager SG

You must be kidding yourself. The scene from Black Hawk Down was made in such a way so as teach a lesson to all soldiers never to dance with their own lives even for the sake of comfort. Also, never undersestimate your enemy or worse, belittle him. Sadly, this aspect of the film had to be interpreted rather than explicitly rationalised by the director or un-bias experts.

Si Geena SG

Well, there are still issues they are ironing out, especially with the Temperature and Heat tolerance of Spider Silk... Lots of Potential, it just has to be engineered the right way before it is marketed.

spencer99 SG

Last time paramilitary forces then to use MP5 as the standard. Sometimes with combat shotgun like SPAS12 as seen on pictures and news.

But nowadays they then to use Mk4/M16 5.56mm type weapons. Is it because of the introduction of Body Armour. If the bad guys have BA, they would be immune to 9mm rounds and shotgun pellets.

Also nowadays, optical sights seems to be standard issue already.

greengoblin SG

Any of you guys here still train in MOG4 + body armor? I remembered 5 years back while I was still serving we had to don this and we were made to do some of the most horrendous PT ever Smile The FIBUA training in it was fun though Smile

NathanG5 SG

yeap...most of them didnt bring along their NVG n extra water...

Si Geena SG

I just saw this and thought that it was worth posting.

Minnesota attorney general sues maker of body armor for police

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/state/8433923.htm

I sincerely hope that our policemen don't wear any of this fella's products. Looks like Shit hits the Fan.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

BTW, that scene really happened in the real event, and the trooper killed was a real guy. Sgt. Casey Joyce was his name, and he had left his back plate out. The AK-47 round penetrated the back of his Ranger Body Armor, punctured his heart, and went straight through to be stopped, ironically, by his frontal plate, where his buddy found the bullet later.

Still anybody want to pass on body armor in war?

panzerjager SG

The scene from the movie seemed to portray that the soldier was shot from the front - noticed the scene in which exit of the round was through the back instead. He froze for about 3 secs before slumping

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