SAF COMMISSIONS LOCALLY-BUILT SELF-PROPELLED ARTILLERY

last SG · 2003-11-24T22:48:01+00:00

From a technical/design stand-point (again), we can achieve, and have already fulfilled, the fundamental elements of firepower and mobility in the class of v...

MushyMaro SG

Hi all...
it does not seem that light weight to me because Paladin weights almost the same at 63600 pds equ to 28 tons also...

PALADIN 155MM - SPECIFICATION
Armament and ammunition
Cannon range unassisted 24 km
Cannon range assisted 30 km
Projectile loading Semi-automatic
Ammunition capacity 39 complete rounds
Rate of firing
Response time
Sustained rate of fire 1 round/3 minutes
Maximum rate of fire 3 rounds/15 seconds; 8 rounds/minute
Fire control Automatic fire control with optical backup
Navigation Inertial positioning navigation system integral with AFCS
Optics night vision compatible
NBC protection individual crew protection with heating and cooling
Hydraulic segregated hydraulics system
Combat weight 63,600 lbs
Length 384 inches
Width 124 inches
Height 127.4 inches
Ground clearance 18 inches
Ground pressure 113.53 psi
Fuel capacity 133 gallons
Speed 40 mph
Vehicle range 214 miles
Engine DDEC 8V71T, 2 cycle diesel, 440 horsepower
Transmission 4 forward, 2 reverse
Suspension torsion bar high strength with high capacity shock absorbers
Electrical power 650 amps, 24 v DC
Travel clock remote powered
Communications VIC-1, VRC-89 or SINCGARS

the chasis mmmm.... never seen b4 too low for a M113.
too "whole piece" for a bionix chasis.

the gun is rather erhm... not impressive. unless they are only for local support instead of strategical ones.

the boxy look seems to tell me that a lot ammunition can be stored wonder how many...

then the box like thing at the turret. whats that? sensors? or something to make the old gun more realiable?

Fairyland SG

Maybe 39 Cal because of barrel length......the recoil mechanism looks huge in comparison to Paladin.

With 52 Cal harder to maneuver around rubber trees or more prevalent today palm trees.

Chassis could be a modified M109 made higher because of autoloader??? With crew of 4!

Must be air conditioned and therefore some NBC protection since I cannot see any side hatches.

Looks great I think but kinda stubby looking (again due to palm trees?) compared to the Turkish ones.... which I had hope would be a ST venture.

gary1910 SG

I have checked thru the spec with Bionix and the Primus

The Bionix has a 475hp DDC 6V 92TA engine.
The Primus has 550hp Detroit Diesel engine, maybe the higher variant of the above since both are from Detroit Diesel.

The both have the same transmission ,GDDS HMPT 500-3EC.

The Bionix has 6 road wheels, where the Primus has 7 road wheels.

From the above , it is most probably based on the Bionix chasis with a stretch hull of additional one road wheel.

Actually it is alway better in maintenance & logistic support for spares if all vehicles shared common chasis.

CHARGE!!!

duotiga83 SG

Originally posted by gary1910:
I have checked thru the spec with Bionix and the Primus

The Bionix has a 475hp DDC 6V 92TA engine.
The Primus has 550hp Detroit Diesel engine, maybe the higher variant of the above since both are from Detroit Diesel.

The both have the same transmission ,GDDS HMPT 500-3EC.

The Bionix has 6 road wheels, where the Primus has 7 road wheels.

From the above , it is most probably based on the Bionix chasis with a stretch hull of additional one road wheel.

[b]CHARGE!!!

[/b]

sounds like to have ease in maintinace.....

YourFather SG

The chassis looks like that of the M109's to me.... care to tell me what difference you guys see? BTW, look at part of the statement released:

"Several commercial-off-the-shelf systems (COTS) such as the M109A6 Paladin (USA), Type 75 ( Japan ), 2S3M1 (Ex-Soviet) and the AS90 Braveheart ( UK ) that fulfilled the prerequisites of possessing firepower with high mobility and battlefield survivability were considered. However, none could cater to our unique requirements in terms of lightweight mobility. Hence, the decision was made by DSTA to develop a completely new SPH with ST Kinetics. "

Interesting... Why would the Japs give access to their howitzer, when the Japs NEVER sell any indigineous equipment? Also, it's interesting that the howitzer's time into action is not revealed... Not to sound sour-grape that this is not a 52 cal arty piece, but if you look at the American FCS NLOS cannon, aaaait is a 39 cal weapon too. Their recent experiences gave them the impression that time into action was in some ways more valuable than range. (It seems that the utility of the Paladin's time into action impressed them quite a bit)

Moonstriker SG

hmmm… looks more like m113 hull… resembles the m109 tho… heh…

warspite SG

Damn I was right! I mentioned quite some time back that I suspected this to be 39cal since I saw this back in 2001, and I was hoping that the in serivce version would be 52 cal instead. Sign......
Wonder why they didn't put one though, even the M109s have been upgraded to 47cal (as performed by the Dutch company RDM).
The chassis does seems like the M109 though, and I will have to disagree with some of you guys. After comparing the road wheels, the overall profile/shape, I still think it is the M109, albeit an improved version, with the most obvious change at the frontal part of the chassis. I don't suppose United Defense will have any problem altering the design at the front, maybe to accomodate an improved engine???
But I am still baffled as to why they don't just buy an SPH off the shelf. I would have shortlisted the PzH2000, the AS90 52cal, and even the Korean K9.
The only reason I could find is that of reducing the crew size, high degree of automation, and a requirement to maintain weight below 30 tons, so that our Bionix bridgelayers can accomodate em, although the Leguan and M60 AVLBs would have no problems whatsoever.
Give me a 52cal SPH anytime!!!!

gary1910 SG

I beg to differ,look at the running track of both vehicles below.
The Primus should have some track return rollers which are cover becos the track is not slacking . The Paladin does not has any track return rollers therefore the track is slacking against the road wheels.

If they are the Paladin, if u modified the track system & replaced with different engine & transmission, u may as well design a new one becos the work will be too great.

External features could easily be modify w/o much engineering work but not the track & suspension system,engine & transmission of a AFV.

CHARGE!!!

YourFather SG

If you looked at my earlier post, it shows that they did evaluate other arty systems, but while their firepower was acceptable, other specifications did not satisfy us... specifically, lightweight mobility (what does that mean? strategic mobility as opposed to tactical mobility?)
BTW, the Leguan ain't used for this purpose... Smile

F*^% THE LEGUANS... Laughing (that coming from a leguan tech)

warspite SG

I don't quite get what you mean...
Both vehicles have a idler roller at the back of the track...is that what you are trying to say?
I am quite a bit rusty...but AFAIK, the tracks are not of equal length, one side has 1 track count more than the other, for eg. left may have 72, the right 73. This is mainly for turning the vehicle so obviously one side would slack a little bit more than the other. As I mentioned, I first saw this vehicle back in 2001, on that occasion, there was a Caucasian engineer attached to the ST technicians/crew during their testing (we were using the same training shed, the one nearest the old RATC compound at Sungei Gedong camp), which reinforced my belief this is an improved M109 chassis...
Well, hope some "old bird" can confirm this...

Originally posted by gary1910:
I beg to differ,look at the running track of both vehicles below.
The Primus should have some track return rollers which are cover becos the track is not slacking . The Paladin does not has any track return rollers therefore the track is slacking.

If they are the Paladin, if u modified the track system, u may as well design a new one becos the work will be too great.

[b]CHARGE!!!

[/b]

warspite SG

Your post just happens to be posted while I was writing mine.... Laughing Wink
BTW, whats wrong with the Leguan..

warspite SG

BTW, did anybody notice that the Primus doesn't have any optical sight/targeting "device" that most SPHs have on their turret? Anyone care to enlighten us poor souls?
Surprised

cavsg SG

if u look at the 2nd primus at the back of the pic, it shows an exhaust at the front with smoke coming out. this is missing from the m 109. engine exhaust or smoke gen system?

gary1910 SG

Look at this M60A3 with the three small little track return rollers just above the bigger road wheel. With this the track will not slacken down to the road wheels.

For AFV w/o track return roller , the track will be very close to the big road wheel becos the track return function is being done by the road wheel , therefore the track slacken down to the road wheels.

These r the only two different design track system in all the AFV.
Got it?

gary1910 SG

Originally posted by cavsg:
if u look at the 2nd primus at the back of the pic, it shows an exhaust at the front with smoke coming out. this is missing from the m 109. engine exhaust or smoke gen system?[/b]

It is the exhaust , saw it smoking black smoke in the news.

CHARGE!!!

ibtrdia SG

It’s a modular Bionix chassis.

Joe Black SG

Rather than optical targeting device, I believe Primus uses ring gyro, and advanced data-link. Watch the movie clip and you will gain some understanding.... The Primus vehicles are controlled by a command vehicle which calculates the firing solutions based on information received from the arty spotters (man or UAVs). Coordinations are fed to the command vehicle which are then directed to each of the Primus vehicles. In some sense, this is network centric way of fighting.

bcoy SG

The chassis uses the same automotive components of the Bionix IFV (ie. road wheels, drive sprocket, gears, etc). The new chassis is lengthen with seven road wheels, height is increase as well, to cater for the large gun and ammo storage. Armour is probably a thin single layer, like most other SPH.
The M109 hull is longer and wider - any body to confirm?

It would be even more interesting to see the new light tank. Seven road wheels, lower hull and a 120mm turret??

|-|05| SG

haha interesting...i dint know they put it out on mindef.....
I saw it on the ST:K's site today before i saw it here...
yea i've been away.Interesting that it's official.

|-|05| SG

haha interesting...i dint know they put it out on mindef.....
I saw it on the ST:K's site today before i saw it here...
yea i've been away.Interesting that it's official.

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