DTL rationalisation speculations

AJQZC SG

===========================================

Welcome to the DTL rationalisation thread.

Feel free to discuss all news, suggestions and speculations with regards to bus service / bus stop amendments with the opening of DTL2 and DTL3.

===========================================

UPDATE, 9 December 2015:

Press releases for DTL2 opening and first phase of route adjustments are out, please visit this link.

TL;DR

Routes affected by DTL2 rationalisation so far (excluding minor bus stop adjustments):

===========================================

UPDATE, 26 September 2017:

Press releases for DTL3 opening and route introductions / amendments are out, please visit this link.

TL;DR

Routes affected by DTL3 rationalisation so far:

===========================================

(2015)

Seeing as to how

- Downtown Line Stage 2 (DTL2) is entering service in a year or so, and

- there still isn't a specific thread dedicated to discussing (possible) bus rationalisation when the line opens, despite numerous discussions in other miscellanous threads,

I thought I would start this one just to have a common place for our ideas and speculations.

===========================================

DTL2 & 1 stations (in operation):

DTL3 stations (opening Saturday, 21 Oct 2017):

DTL4 stations (opening c. 2025):

===========================================

AJQZC SG

------------------------------------------

Here I'll just list the services with various degrees of route duplication with DTL2. This list is just my own interpretation from the maps. The full extent to which these services are affected will only be clear after DTL2 opening, of course.

Also, some services may be adjusted to serve nearby DTL stations, and new bus stops may be erected for this purpose.

Heavy duplication (with possibility of major route change or removal):

Significant duplication / Express services (some sectors following / parallel to the line, may undergo major or minor changes):

Other services (plying close routes parallel to or bisecting DTL2, should mostly be unchanged but may be slightly altered if above services are amended, or to serve the newly opened stations nearby):

SMB128B SG

You can kiss goodbye to this thread

LTA will not do anything rationalisation.

Period. Kthxbye

AJQZC SG

--.--

Rationalisation is about the optimisation of bus routes to complement new MRT lines. Don't be scared by the word, or by the drastic actions LTA did after NEL opening, that was just mass route deletion and an excuse for more west-side bus services to terminate at the CBD.

At least CCL didn't have many services duplicating most of its route, itself being a medium capacity line. But some services (such as 93) did get fleet cuts.

For DTL2, at least 171 will definitely be affected. The route is too long (34+ km) and roundabout.

TPS Timothy Mok SG

------------------------------------------

Also, some services may be adjusted to serve nearby DTL stations, and new bus stops may be erected for this purpose.

Heavy duplication (with possibility of major route change or removal):

Significant duplication / Express services (some sectors following / parallel to the line, may undergo major or minor changes):

You can only change 64 (by removing all DD), 65 (by removing some DD) and 107 (by removing all DD) that's all, a way becos of 66, 67 and 960 becoming DD. 48 will become more versatile due to Tanjong Katong Road South, forcing the load to channel off from 48 to spread constant load. The Little India bus service one of the cause of riots will therefore be removed. PLS remove all the complaints that made by Shawn Ong and allow us to unblock.

TPS Timothy Mok SG

I think 67 can just throw away all bendies and move over to Sungei Seletar or Bedok North. The nearest depot I can think of is Bedok North, not go far far away to Ang Mo Kio. I am sure all bus operators never think of the ideal location.

carbikebus SG

Later Bedok North also replaced by Changi mega Depot..Ang Mo Kio also gone already..

What i can think is 66 & 67 Jurong East loops at Lavender if they keesiao dun wanna duplicate rail lines..Only those express/Premium svc will follow 80% of rail lines.

JurongWestresident SG

I do not think within the first three months of opening of Downtown Line MRT, there would be (significant) changes to bus routes because of the opening of the MRT.

We have to collect data and determine which are the connections that may no longer need bus connections, or the demand is no longer that strong as today. Thereafter, if feasible, make changes to certain bus routes.

I am sure we all have an idea of which bus routes may be affected. The alignment of Downtown Line has duplicated many bus routes, especially a few. Nonetheless, we should wait and see how travel patterns and loadings on the buses change when Downtown Line opens, before we make any changes.

Any decision made should be well-informed. #justsaying

carbikebus SG

I think LTA wont cut bus service,The most they amend or cut short the route..The high loading sectors i am pretty sure wont be chopped off..

TPS Timothy Mok SG

Later Bedok North also replaced by Changi mega Depot..Ang Mo Kio also gone already..

What i can think is 66 & 67 Jurong East loops at Lavender if they keesiao dun wanna duplicate rail lines..Only those express/Premium svc will follow 80% of rail lines.

I suggest can break 67 up.

Gus.chong SG

------------------------------------------

Also, some services may be adjusted to serve nearby DTL stations, and new bus stops may be erected for this purpose.

Heavy duplication (with possibility of major route change or removal):

Significant duplication / Express services (some sectors following / parallel to the line, may undergo major or minor changes):

I doubt that 170 will be changed in anyway...it has been the direct bus service from Queen Street to Woodlands/Johor Bahru by using the direct roads in Bukit Timah area for 90 years or so...

But it occurs to me that 48/66/67/170/171/700/960 are somewhat using the same route along Bukit Timah area for at least 10 years or more and it has never been amended in ways to reduce duplication...

carbikebus SG

48 wont be amended i guarantee that,66/67 most probably would end up at Eunos and Lor 1 Geylang respectively

carbikebus SG

171 already i heard ppl speculate to cut short to either Bt Batok or Bt Panjang

BusAnalayzer SG

Seeing as to how

- Downtown Line Stage 2 (DTL2) is entering service in a year or so, and

- there still isn't a specific thread dedicated to discussing (possible) bus rationalisation when the line opens, despite numerous discussions in other miscellanous threads,

I thought I would start this one just to have a common place for our ideas and speculations.

DTL2 stations:

There was one before, but it died after some 50 posts

BusAnalayzer SG

To me not many services will be rationalised. There will be a wait and watch period.

My recommendations:

171 should ply from Yishun to Bukit Batok via Hillview Ave instead

67 should ply between Tampines looping @ Middle road, where sv 56 plies (operated by SBST with majority DD fleet)

867 will be the 67 from CCK Interchange looping / Lor 1 Geylang (this can now be full fleet SD)

Don't touch 65/66. 65 should continue to be majority DD but can have few SDs in its fleet. 64 can do away with its DDs. 66 can have few peak hour DDs.

961/970 should remain

Likewise I dont see loading on 190/960/972 reducing majorly. Still will continue to have majority DD fleet

700 will become full fleet SD as load will drop

No change to sv 48 as well.

carbikebus SG

Dont you think CCK loop at Lor 1 is too long?

lemon1974 SG

Before circle line open, ppl also speculate sv 70/93 n some other services will be remove. N now sv70 even got fleet add/upgrade despite running almost parallel to the circle line. They won't be removing or cut short any services right now. Slight amendment to go to the station is possible but it seem like the station are situation along main roads already so not much amendment also. The most if demand drop they will reduce the frequency or deploy SD but will not remove completely.

BusAnalayzer SG

Dont you think CCK loop at Lor 1 is too long?

Didn't say its loop. Put 867 as CCK / Lor 1. Will terminate at both ends.

BusAnalayzer SG

Agreed. But let me correct you on sv 70. The buses got added / upgrades were done due to the NEX / Seletar Hills sector where new HDBs were completed and there was a sudden surge in loading.

Even now, sv 70 gets 80+ pax in AM towards NEX... between NEX and Guillemard road, loading is around 30-50 pax.. not more.. again loading picks up at Guillemard road for Shenton Way / CBD where you again see DDs get full.

So 70 not really mimicks CCL except for the middle part of its route, which is the lowest loading point for the service.

93 did lose its DDs after CCL. Similarly 165 lost its high loading after CCL. Before CCL, 165 was a super high loading service. So services are bound to get affected.

I don't think LTA will directly cut services but some like 171 that do not have huge loading today might get truncated. Also some services might get few downgrades.

wsy1234 SG

67 and 66 bus service merging together and coming year cut to bedok due to DTL3 open in tampines or both service remove. 171 cut back to Bt Batok. 190, 700, 971E, 972, will reduce to only one or two express service. 960 and 961 will withdraw. but come to think the DTL is operated by sbst so LTA will not doing anything so that there is pressure for sbst to make the line work properly or else lost customers to smrt bus.