DTL rationalisation speculations

last SG · 2015-05-06T14:12:01+00:00

I do not think within the first three months of opening of Downtown Line MRT, there would be (significant) changes to bus routes because of the opening of th...

SMB128B SG

Based on my personal experience, from DTL2 to NEL, transferring at Little India takes almost the same (if not shorter) time as compared to using CCL. You have 2 more stops this way but you don't have to walk the 2 super long transfer links at CCL interchanges and wait for CCL trains to arrive.

Well, on the map it seems nearer, thus the general trend for ppl to use CCL

SBS6465E SG

Reason is apparent. You were at Bugis, Rochor. Mind if I ask which day did you go there? DTL2 mostly passes by areas where people own cars and would've easily reached office via. PIE/BKE/Lornie Rd etc. Most rather jam in a car than squish in a train (even though it isnt that squished). At Bugis and Rochor you would expect most pax to be office workers, who also happen to drive. You may only expect BPJ residents to be taking the line, but again they have 960, 190. Hence the low catchment.

But you have yet to see. Come to Botanic Gardens, it's a totally different story. Loads and loads of students cramming onto the trains before and after sch hours, not to mention many BPJ residents using the CCL, to places where buses will not reach. Yes, it is because the northwest lacks bus connections to various parts of the island eg. Central and the Northeast, thats why ppl are more inclined to use the MRT to get there, and CCL does the job better than CBD lines. Furthermore, schs at BKT receive students from all over SG, hence the need for these students who cant drive to take MRT. You wont expect students to head downtown on a school day, will you?

This is why you need rationalisation to force people out of old habits. Not advocating for such brutal measures like were seen during NEL. But routes like 190, 700, 960 and 972 should have their frequencies reduced and additional fleet deployed elsewhere. For 960 an M varriant could be introduced from Wdl to BPJ. LTA should examine why commuters are not budging and I suspect people are still used to the direct service provided by these services (from office right up to doorstep). If so, then LTA needs to look at last-mile connections. If not, it really is a wastage of resources in the form of overcapacity caused by duplication.

On the point about Bt Timah residents driving alot, well, just walk into one of those housing estates and you will realise how deep they are. It is a very long walk. This is where LTA needs to be more nimble. You can't introduce a BSEP service in Watten Estate for example. I would advocate a scheme B feeder service with limited one-way departures during AM and PM peak.

TIB429E SG

I'm sure there's no need to "force rationalisation"...at least now the crowd is spread out to both buses and train..and bus fares are cheaper than MRT.

Excluding Traffic Jams, waiting time at each station, both 960 & DTL have quite close travelling time from Bugis to Bukit Panjang.

Anyway, I'm sure DTL doesn't reach to areas like Orchard that conveniently..

TIB868X SG

Rationalization is very much on the cards.

BusAnalayzer SG

If they want DTL2 loading to improve, definitely they will need to rationalize.

I think route planning of DTL2 hasn't been good. It mostly passes through condos/private housing. People choose to live further away in these areas so that they pay less housing money to compensate for COE and cars.

Peak period analysis

Bukit Panjang - major part of DTL2 loading

Cashew/Hillview - very few people board

Beauty World - decent

All stations up to Botanic Gardens - loading/alighting remains poor. Contrary to popular belief did not notice many students alighting at King Albert or at schools along Bukit Timah stretch

Botanic Gardens - good boarding/alighting - transfer pax

Stevens/Newton - loading is poor

Little India - good boarding/alighting - transfer pax

Rochor - the station seems almost empty

Bugis - not much boarding, quite a bit alighting.

For a small MRT during peak hours there are seats available, and ample space to stand.

iveco SG

I hear the alarm bells sounding for 171. God knows if it's gonna kena swallow by 180 or 983.

AJQZC SG

If they want DTL2 loading to improve, definitely they will need to rationalize.

Peak period analysis

Bukit Panjang - major part of DTL2 loading

Cashew/Hillview - very few people board

Beauty World - decent

All stations up to Botanic Gardens - loading/alighting remains poor. Contrary to popular belief did not notice many students alighting at King Albert or at schools along Bukit Timah stretch

Botanic Gardens - good boarding/alighting - transfer pax

Stevens/Newton - loading is poor

Little India - good boarding/alighting - transfer pax

Rochor - the station seems almost empty

Bugis - not much boarding, quite a bit alighting.

For a small MRT during peak hours there are seats available, and ample space to stand.

Essentially DTL2 doesn't serve HDB estates other than Bt Panjang and Beauty World. Residents of CCK and Yew Tee could still consider transferring if DTL is more direct to destination, or if NSL is further away. It doesn't help to provide a direct link to those staying further west/south (such as Bt Batok, Clementi, Jurong West), who will still rely on NSL/EWL for the majority of their long distance travels.

I recall a residents' (and students') campaign from the DTL2's early days to plead to LTA to extend the line to Yew Tee, given the density of its population. Didn't get much traction.

AJQZC SG

I hear the alarm bells sounding for 171. God knows if it's gonna kena swallow by 180 or 983.

983 is less likely due to different demand/loading, adjusting the frequency to cater to both sections is more difficult. 180 possible. I considered 177 too, but with 177 going to TT there may be an operator conflict.

Either way, there has to be a reconfiguration of the loop around BPJ MRT if it is going to merge with either route.

wsy1234 SG

i see no reason why LTA should remove those bus service. As DTL is operated by SBST and bus service is by SMRT or soon some of the service is by TT. a little competition is good for everybody since operators now answer to LTA, not board of directors of the company as the last last ministers use to say.

BusAnalayzer SG

Candidates for rationalisation not in whole but part.

961

Woodlands Interchange <> Beauty World (loop)

171

Yishun Interchange <> Beauty World (loop)

CCK Interchange <> Marina Center (loop)

* follows 171 route from Newton to Marina Center

Introducing 68

Tampines Interchange <> Middle Road (loop)

SBS7557R SG

If rationalization is needed to improve the ridership of a newly-opened MRT line, then it proves that there is no need to build the MRT line in the first place, since most commuters would rather continue to use buses than the new MRT line.

This was precisely why the NEL rationalization was that brutal 13 years ago, because LTA wanted to force people to switch to the NEL rather than use public buses due to its poor ridership (about the same as DTL2 right now). So don't come and tell me they won't be brutal this time round - it'll be just as brutal, or worse.

Might as well demolish all the bus stops along the DTL corridor. Since the DTL can provide "all the necessary connections to commuters' destinations", what is the point of continuing running buses along the DTL corridor? Might as well withdraw/cut all of them and let's see what happens when the DTL breaks down. No need to consider how much they duplicate the DTL at all. Just withdraw all routes that duplicate the DTL even one small bit senselessly like what they did to NEL 13 years ago.

147 shouldn't even have been left behind, commuters should just suffer and squeeze in the NEL. LTA shouldn't have bothered with the outcry to retain 147 and went ahead with its cut.

AJQZC SG

No thanks. These are extreme hypothetical situations. It is an undeniable fact that the public transport system is based on MRT-bus integration (however poor some areas might be). Rationalisation is based on finding the optimal balance between MRT and bus.

There is currently an oversupply of resources based on what fellow forum members have observed. As it is not feasible to cut trains, the solution is to reduce buses, in particularly those on services with the most passenger loading decrease (that have transferred to the DTL).

Again, if you like, please read my post on page 6 of this thread.

SMB128B SG

Again, if you like, please read my post on page 6 of this thread.

Amend as express lor

BusAnalayzer SG

I know it is too late but the routing of DTL2 should have been better, something like:

Yew Tee (crossover pax from NSL)

Keat Hong

Bukit Panjang

Pending

Ngee Ann

Dover

NUH

Alexandra

Bukit Merah Central

SGH

Chinatown and continues via Bugis/Jalan Besar to DTL3.

array88 SG

If they want DTL2 loading to improve, definitely they will need to rationalize.

Peak period analysis

Bukit Panjang - major part of DTL2 loading

Cashew/Hillview - very few people board

Beauty World - decent

All stations up to Botanic Gardens - loading/alighting remains poor. Contrary to popular belief did not notice many students alighting at King Albert or at schools along Bukit Timah stretch

Botanic Gardens - good boarding/alighting - transfer pax

Stevens/Newton - loading is poor

Little India - good boarding/alighting - transfer pax

Rochor - the station seems almost empty

Bugis - not much boarding, quite a bit alighting.

For a small MRT during peak hours there are seats available, and ample space to stand.

1. From my sources, stations such as Tan Kah Kee are crowded with students in the morning.

2. I don't know how you came up with the conclusion that loading at Newton is poor. It's not as good as Little India, but definitely better than Stevens.

3. Again, Rochor is definitely not a station with almost empty loading. Many board at Little India and alight at Rochor. MANY.

4. For Bugis, there's more people on DTL1 side than those on the DTL2 side.

And during peak hours there are NO seats available. Nor for some off-peak hours. Just this morning 8am I was taking DTL to Promenade and the number of pax standing is as good as those seating, which is much better than the subsequent CCL train I boarded towards Paya Lebar (which was almost empty).

array88 SG

Candidates for rationalisation not in whole but part.

961

Woodlands Interchange <> Beauty World (loop)

171

Yishun Interchange <> Beauty World (loop)

CCK Interchange <> Marina Center (loop)

* follows 171 route from Newton to Marina Center

Introducing 68

Tampines Interchange <> Middle Road (loop)

Honestly I don't think 961 has lost its loading. I still observe quite okay loading at TKK towards Woodlands, which proves its unique route still survives well.

dupdup77 SG

147 shouldn't even have been left behind, commuters should just suffer and squeeze in the NEL. LTA shouldn't have bothered with the outcry to retain 147 and went ahead with its cut.

Hi mr SBS7557R, who says the DTL can provide all the necessary connections to commuters' destinations??? There are many bus stops in between the DTL that are not served by MRT. They need to be continued to be served by buses. Cheers. Thanks.

array88 SG

147 shouldn't even have been left behind, commuters should just suffer and squeeze in the NEL. LTA shouldn't have bothered with the outcry to retain 147 and went ahead with its cut.

Is this sarcasm?

On a more serious note, the authorities who executed NEL rationalisation would probably have regretted seeing NEL trains bursting nowadays. This MAY happen to DTL at anytime (although with a lower probability, considering Sengkang and Punggol had developed a lot in the past 10 years, but this may not really happen to Bukit Panjang).

However, I can sense some places along Upp Bukit Timah and Bukit Timah may have new developments sooner or later... By then all those bus services (that may be possibly rationalised) may be useful again - but the authorities will not revert the rationalise to show how silly they are.

array88 SG

I know it is too late but the routing of DTL2 should have been better, something like:

Yew Tee (crossover pax from NSL)

Keat Hong

Bukit Panjang

Pending

Ngee Ann

Dover

NUH

Alexandra

Bukit Merah Central

SGH

Chinatown and continues via Bugis/Jalan Besar to DTL3.

You need to realise the route of an MRT line is not as simple as that of buses. Tight turns or passing through too many buildings are extremely impossible. Plus, the route you're suggesting is basically too winding for BPJ residents.

proudtobeme SG

on ccl also many station like dtl2 empty.

ccl station empty or not have many peop

bartley - lor chuan - caldecott - tehlok blangah.

ewl station empty or not have many peop

chinese garden

nsl station empty or not have many peop

bradell

« Previous Page Next Page »