DTL rationalisation speculations

last SG · 2015-05-06T14:12:01+00:00

I do not think within the first three months of opening of Downtown Line MRT, there would be (significant) changes to bus routes because of the opening of th...

BusAnalayzer SG

187 must not reroute, the route is unique by itself for those ITE students

Agree.

TPS Timothy Mok SG

Agree that 852 is difficult to scrap. Not sure if it could be modified to become semi-express though ... may be possible to cut to YCK.

Amended 171 can loop around BPJ, but any longer and it'll be better to terminate to prevent bunching/schedule problems. Same goes with either half of 67 if it is split.

700 can either be withdrawn, or rerouted to Jurong East/Bt Batok; both towns would benefit from an express link to Stevens and Orchard. There are enough alternatives in its place. 960 can be diverted to Dairy Farm Rd (not 972, as it is needed for transfers at the Blk 270 bus stop).

66 and 170 can stay for the time being (either 65 or 66 may do well with a bit of diversions along DTL3 where needed).

Overall I believe the priority should be as such:

-- (1) Shorten 171

-- (2) Withdraw / divert 700, make 960 cover for it along Dairy Farm Rd. (Also amend 972 to Dunearn Rd and Newton Rd to cover for 171/700, and probably extend to Marina Ctr if not given other route replacement). 971E may be modified to trace 700 for peak hours.

-- (3) Split up 67, probably best with both halves passing through Little India

-- (4) Split up 178 and make relevant changes to 960/961, if any.

1) Do the withdrawal of service 700A, should take charge of service 973. Service 700 can then be reduced to peak-hour service operating on weekdays similar to service 971E to avoid sympathy.

2) Service 171 could stay, given that the priority is via the diverted stretch of Grange Rd (skipping part of Orchard Rd), and it still allows the link to match the Marina Centre broken link. There is a need to have a direct service given that Bird Park is moving to Mandai, so there should be minimal disruption.

3) Service 65, 66 and 67 can be amended (only one link is allowed at the time):

65 - Amended via MacPherson Road, Airport Road and Eunos Link (Commuters are unlikely to be inconvenienced given that there is service 66 to cover through).

66 - Amended via Bukit Batok Street 11 and Bukit Batok West Avenue 6 (Commuters are unlikely to be inconvenienced given that there is service 157 and 174 to cover through).

67 - Amended via Keng Lee and Kampong Java Road respectively (Commuters are unlikely to be inconvenienced given that there is service 48, 66 and 960 to cover their enough capacity).

Anyway, with this measure, 66 has a good thought of having more double deckers onto the fleet.

SMRT will have a reduced fleet of double deckers as the loading would have dropped for DTL, and reliable NSL/EWL.

TIB 585L SG

IMO 852 normally crowded if it is the first bus that came to certain area wich is not usually the case. Usually if 851 comes crowded and 852 is behind, the leftovers would take 852. Took 852 fully packed to the door before during peak hr when 851/853 was nowhere to be seen

TPS Timothy Mok SG

852 is not allowed to be rationalised.

SBS 9256 X SG

Why is 852 difficult to scrap??

157 in parallel from Bukit Batok to Macritchie. 74 in parallel from King Albert to AMK Ave 6/3 junction. 851 in parallel from Marymount to Yishun. The only way to keep it is if you say people take it from Bukit Batok to Yishun which is not real.

67 split I recommend because 67 section Tampines-Little India needs DDs. 67 section Little India-CCK is running empty until it reaches BPJ-CCK area.

I always take 852 from BBT to Yishun... So what is not real? My opinion I believe that Svc 852 serves as a back up for Svc 74. I was an NP student and sometimes if Svc 74 does not come, I will take Svc 852 and alight along Bukit Timah Road to transfer to other buses or even to the Shell Station (Upp Bukit Timah Road)

Even if you say there is Svc 851, the bus will already be packed from Bugis/Little India by the time it reaches Marymount (I experience it before). So Svc 852 is a back up service.

TIB 585L SG

Even if you say there is Svc 851, the bus will already be packed from Bugis/Little India by the time it reaches Marymount (I experience it before). So Svc 852 is a back up service.

I always take 852 from marymount to yishun during peak hr, fully pack sia coz 851 in front oso packed already. it was packed all the way to khatib mrt

SBS 9256 X SG

I always take 852 from marymount to yishun during peak hr, fully pack sia coz 851 in front oso packed already. it was packed all the way to khatib mrt

That's why... So the two of us have justified on why Svc 852 is beneficial...

CZT SG

That's why... So the two of us have justified on why Svc 852 is beneficial...

I can also quote a fren of mine who relies on 852 to go to hwa chong frm yishun. I admit that it runs pretty empty during off peak, but when the time comes its pretty important

CZT SG

67 is not removed; it is cut into two. 67 and 987.

170 is senseless to start from Queens St if they are serious with rationalization. Frequent delays and long route, parallel to DTL2. Also unlike other services like 147 that run full house, 170 runs practically empty until it hits BPJ MRT. Queens St Terminal can be used for other services.

852 is the most logical to cut given there is 74, 157 and 851 in parallel. The only replacement required is for sector b/w Beauty World and Old Jurong road that I addressed.

I mean if you are saying people take 852 from Yishun to Bukit Batok, then I don't have anything to say. There should be NO rationalization because for every route someone can say this and lets run "empty" buses eating into tax payers money.

OK i saw the 67 changes. My bad

I feel like fighting for ur opinion on 170 nonetheless, but please do kindly advice me if i start making no sense thanks. :)

Queen Street is machiam a small cross border bus ter, which idm seeing other services using it, but considering the area is kinda small and boarding can be quite haphazard, parking space is pretty limited too, so i guess if u r thinking of 2 future Sg routes facilitating it i think could be too much for the ter to handle.

I understand how the route itself is pretty empty, but my impression was that foreign workers consider that service as an alternative to go back to their dorms along woodlands road. So in the case of rationalisation, making it express along PIE --> BKE then exit into bukit panjang area --> woodlands road could be an alternative?

gekpohboy SG

Don’t ignore me leh. What’s wrong with my feedback? (See first post on this page)

AJQZC SG

Don’t ignore me leh. What’s wrong with my feedback? (See first post on this page)

Merging 180 and 178 Woodlands section is not feasible due to the different passengers & frequency they serve, as well as because the combined service will skip BPJ MRT. There is also service 160 to cover for the most of this route.

Also the 178 section between Boon Lay - BB does not warrant being withdrawn without replacement at the moment (sure, we can argue that there are alternatives such as 49, but there will be bus stops without services, so it wouldn't go well with LTA).

AJQZC SG

I always take 852 from marymount to yishun during peak hr, fully pack sia coz 851 in front oso packed already. it was packed all the way to khatib mrt

Which explains why Yishun bus services are quite f***ed up IMO ... too many long and winding southbound trunk services like 171, 851, 852, 853, 855, that cannot afford to be amended to serve more of the inner neighborhoods, or extended to SBW to make space, etc. Then add in Seletar bus package. So they're doomed to serve the long stretch of road(s) all the way to AMK/Thomson.

AJQZC SG

Why is 852 difficult to scrap??

67 split I recommend because 67 section Tampines-Little India needs DDs. 67 section Little India-CCK is running empty until it reaches BPJ-CCK area.

Ah well, like SBS 9256X and TIB 585L mentioned above. Also witnessed a sizable number of commuters relying on 852 to commute from AMK Ave 6 / Bishan area to BB on weekday nights (around 8-9.30pm) quite a while ago.

Sbs6750E SG

Let 170 be a back-up svc for DTL lah, just like 2, 147, 128 etc.
67 can shorten to terminate at Whampoa via Moulmein Rd, Balestier Rd, Whampoa Dr/Rd skipping Jln Bahagia to St Michael Ter instead of looping around KK Hospital there. This would provide faster links for Whampoa to TTSH/KKH/Tekka Ctr.

SMB1368T SG

This seems to be another episode about duplicating services. I still remembered we used to talk about this back when 229 & 38 duplicate each other, therefore 38 must skip that duplicating part

In my opinion, its more than what meets the eye. Maybe some routes do look "useless' when it seems that duplicating routes have so much load to carry, however, there are always crucial times when these routes are useful in the end like what we are discussing now. Thats why tbf if you wanna make conclusions abt routes, just board them at different times and days when you can see varying loads on routes as well as evaluating the route purposes

Back to the topic, 178 is useful for the BBT part. I rode it (SMB1317R) a few days ago on Sunday frm 5:30pm to 7pm(full trip frm BNL to WDL) and it does bring an acceptable load of passengers (seats full some standing) to another part of BBT where a church is. While most alight there, there are a handful of those who alight at Hillview area and remaining to BP. I am aware that there are duplicating routes but that does not stop them from taking 178. Sometimes they do it since other routes may not be reliable in terms of frequency and passenger load (Idk abt BBT service network) but I noticed that the buses were packed like sardines during the time

In any case, any duplicating route always has a supplementary role for other routes (for example, 38 provides a faster link to BS than 229, which is why many people rather take 38 than 229 from what I observed). Its just a matter of when they are really needed at times

dupdup77 SG

Hi mr sbs6750E, when they introduced service 170A in end 2015, they have sort of making 170/170A as a back-up service to DTL. So no worries about it being amended. Cheers. Thanks.

dupdup77 SG

Hi mr AJQZC, woodlands and yishun services are those type of services which sort of bring people from north to various parts of Singapore at a reasonably fast attempt. Most of the services duplicate each other at the northern tip of Singapore and the drivers speed at the initial sectors of roads until a certain area where the buses split. Cheers. Thanks.

carbikebus SG

There should be a small terminal for 170 to terminate along Dunearn Rd before Bt Timah Rd.Waste resource to end up at Queen St..

BusAnalayzer SG

Even if you say there is Svc 851, the bus will already be packed from Bugis/Little India by the time it reaches Marymount (I experience it before). So Svc 852 is a back up service.

Put more DDs on 851. Problem solved. And by the way 851 loading also has dropped. The time for long distance commuters has gone. Most prefer MRT that is the reality. I am not surprised if someone says that they take 51 from Hougang to Jurong East or 30 from Boon Lay to Bedok or 61 from Bukit Batok to Eunos. I am sure there will always be some people, so let's not rationalize any route.

BusAnalayzer SG

I always take 852 from marymount to yishun during peak hr, fully pack sia coz 851 in front oso packed already. it was packed all the way to khatib mrt

DDs on 851 is the solution but 851 loading has dropped. When I had sent note to LTA, it said 90% of buses had less than 60% occupancy of its loading limit. Now not sure if they calculate 60% on 90 pax basis or 60% on 70 pax basis.

But first step should have been to deploy HC buses on 851. Clearly 851 loading is not that high since it is always the service that is chosen to downgrade. 851 in turn also has many alternatives along its route.

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