Battleships: Old warhorses

Johnston SG

Any WWII aficionados here?

These are some of the greatest BBs ever (or the most famous)
Germany: Bismarck,Tirpitz, Graf spee, gneisnua, Scarnhorst
Britain: King George V, Hood, Repulse, Prince Of Wales
USA: Iowa class, North carolina, Texas (too many to name).
Japan: Yamato, Musashi, Kongo, Hiel (much more)

Their presence dictated strategy.
The threat of their deployment caused ship captains to quake in their boots. (Recall the fate of a certain Convoy, ordered to scatter, just because Tirpitz might have been at sea)
The firepower mounted by one.... tremendous!

Discussion?

CenturionMBT SG

When they come face to face with air power battleships are obsolete.

|-|05| SG

Well the upgraded Iowa's carried something like 200 SM-2's....plus the ageis system.Making it a walking fortress.Also the US is having a hard time filling in the big guns that the battler ships have.Even the smallest of the guns were 5inches....provided some good arty support of amphi assaults not to mention the huge amounts of tomahawk missiles it could carry.Which is why the US considered the arsenal ships.But i think those were cancelled.
Anyway it's hard to point to any single best battleship because they were simply made for different reasons.
The Bismark was built for speed and barely had any armour.It also had the best sighting system at that time.However the British ships had the best armour in the Alantic learnt from the fact that the ww1 ships were sunk too easily but deck hits.Also the best gunnery skills for the main guns were british.
The US had a combination of good armour and copied the german sighting system to make them pretty good at shooting though the Brits were the for shore arty support.Also you have to look at the conditions.The British had a huge supplus of dreadnaughts that they converted for ww1 and then they used many old ww1 battleships for ww2(e.g the hood)The Germans were limited in time and tonnage so they never had any big ships.US had the most up to date battleships since most were sunk in pearl harbour and the rebuilt that fleet.Japan well sorry but other then knowing the Yamato's had huge guns (25inches i think) and thick armour i hardly know anything about their ships sorry.

Johnston SG

Yes yes, air power makes BBs obsolete.
But in their time and day, BBs were the be-all, end all for navies.

Iowa does not carry any SM-2's.
The upgraded Iowa's add Harpoons, Tomahawks, and Phalanx. No fancy stuff.

Hood wasn't a battleship, it was a battlecruiser.

Yamato and Musashi had 18.1 inch guns.....
The 3rd member, Shinano was converted into a carrier. And it was subsequently sunk by a sub. Razz

|-|05| SG

No SM-2's meh? i thought the removed 1 of the stern turrets to fit those in?Or was it a plan that was never carried out?talking abt the Iowa class ofcause....have to do some digging up i'm alittle rusty on ww2 stuff hehe
Well the Bismark wasnt a battleship either.It was also a battle cruiser....though they called it a pocket battle ships because of the guns.The problems they had with classifing ships then was because they did not know to classify it using tonnage or gun calibre.Read that somewhere.And the Yamato had the biggest guns....right? that much i know Wink it was sunk by planes during transit to Okinawa....that i know Mr. Green

|-|05| SG

Apperently they did not go though with the plan to put VLS on the BB’s and decom all the ships.But they have kept 2 on in mothball state just incase they needed firepower.And the Arsenal ships has been cancelled meaning the US lacks ships with a big OMPF!!Too bad they will just have to use their carriers more i guess.

Icemoon SG

Hmmm .. I think Repulse was a battlecruiser right? Then Prince of Wales was a battleship. I know these two ships in different classes.

What's the difference between a battleship and a battlecruiser? I think the latter sacrifice armour for speed?

Johnston SG

..... They did remove some of the secondary armament, but SM-2's were never part of the revised armament.

Bismarck and Tirpitz were both referred to as Battleships, in every work i have come across. Pocket battleships, are those of the Scarnhorst class.

You really need to get some reading....

Icemoon SG

I know very little about BB, but after a little research, I realize you also need to get some reading. Mr. Green

Pocket battleships, or Panzerschiff, were those of the Deutschland class, not Scharnhorst class.

The three indisputable Pocket battleships:
Deutschland/ Lützow
Admiral Graf Spee
Admiral Scheer

|-|05| SG

Scarnhorst class were Schlachtkreuzers or battle cruisers
the Deutschland class is a pre-dreadnaught class though some said they are pocket battleships.
mm and yea the bismark is battleship sorry it's a full 20,000tons more then the Scarnhorst.But still the bismark was under armoured.Infact it had slightly less armour then the Scranhorst i from what i see

Icemoon SG

They ARE the pocket battleships. Very Happy

sgFish SG

ah..but with the decommisioning of all the battleships there were no ships capable of conducting naval gunfire support..so the US are designing a future DD-X, which is some destroyer that is meant to give NGFS like a battleship..anyone know anything abt the DDX programme?

|-|05| SG

Ya it got spilt off from the Arsenal ships project.And it's called DD-21 fire support ship.And like i said the battleships are decom but 2 of them are still being held in reserve just incase the USN needs them.I think they are the Iowa(BB-61) and the Wisconsin(BB-64).They are still on the navy's list of ships while the New jersy and Missori have been removed effectively retiring them.

Johnston SG

*nods*
Now get over to this page.
http://warships1.com/US/BB61stats/index.htm

Johnston SG

Roger on Iowa and Wisconsin.

But DD-21 has been canceled, hasn't it? The same for the arsenal ship. Too much projects, too little $$

Johnston SG

I'll have you know that the majority of surface warships still carry 5 inch guns.
Ticonderoga, Arleigh Burke, Oliver Hazard Perry....

sgFish SG

can 5 inch guns give adequate naval gunfire support? i mean like they have quite short range..

Johnston SG

Our FH2000 155mm/52 cal howitzers can deliver ordnance out to 50 klicks.

That's far enough, thanks.

USA is researching on extended-range munitions, just for shore bombardment... Razz

spencer99 SG

No lah, the "Oliver Hazard Perry" class frigates are armed a 76mm gun not a 5" gun..

|-|05| SG

Still.......what is the 1 5inch on the Aleigh Bruke and 2 5inches on the Ticonderoga going compared to the 9 16inches and 12 5inches??Though i have to admit the guns on the Iowa's are small in calibre.being 38 for the 5inch and 50 for the 16 inches but still it is more then those on present day ships which is why the navy still has 2 on the standby and 2 more that can be made ready in under 1 year.