Need for conscripted Special Forces personnel?

last SG · 2003-10-20T12:35:45+00:00

One of the more handy distinctions I have come across is the distinction made between Special Forces and Special Operating Forces by Robin Neillands. Neillan...

Gedanken SG

Double post.

IAF SG

Thanx gendaken for enlightening. Btw, what is to be understood by professionalism in this context? Does it mean that the level of regimentation is just as high as other units?

Gedanken SG

No, our definition of professionalism was quite distinct from regimentation. By definition, regimentation is discipline imposed through a hierarchical structure. Because our structure is flatter than those of most units, our culture tends more to focus more upon the individual, that discipline was more self-imposed. Each of us was given more responsibility for our own performance - for most part we lived up to that responsibility, and the unit culture placed pressure on us to keep up with the rest. We do tend to be more self-driven on average, in terms of things like fitness and weapon maintenance.

Our perceived level of discipline is affected by two factors, namely the flatter organisational structure and our order of priorities. Within any operational company, the lowest rank is corporal, so there is much less difference in rank within the hierarchy. Also, our officers return to us once they are commissioned, so we serve our last year under platoon commanders who went through BMT with us. All of this leads to a much more casual environment amongst the ranks.

Our order of priorities also drives much of our conduct. While we pay little regard to the spit-and-polish aspects of military life, we do not muck about when it comes to making sure that we can get the job done. When preparing for exercises, we would go through 20 to 25 dry runs, taking out different elements of the company each time (for example, the whole demolition team may get killed and taken out of play) and executing all of the backup plans.

At the same time, when we switch off, we really switch off. We once had a company barbecue at Big Splash - at one point, the whole company lined up at the biggest slide and the CSM dispatched everybody down the slide like it was an airborne drop, so that we had three or four guys on one slide at a time. The lifeguard hit the panic button and called a halt to that immediately spoilsport. If you have a unit whose raison detre is to cause disruption, what else can you expect? Mr. Green

paulho SG

Israel is different. Israel has a long long history of being a nation of warriors always fighting and fighting for survival. The people therefore want to continue family traditions ... israeli's are much like the gurkas who also like to continue family traditions of soldiering.

Having said that I feel we should setup a recruiting station in Nepal like the british to recruit gurkas. A foreign legion force made up of gurkas.

Why british so powerful? It's because whenever there is a conflict they always send in the gurkas first. You notice the iraq invasion they never send in their own nationals.

Unlike the british I feel we should offer gurka recruits an opportunity for citizenship in singapore after serving a number of years. Train, educate, promote and grant citrizen ship. With citizen ship comes better life than scratching for a living in the fields back home. Eventually families will be brought over to continue the tradition of soldiering here in singapore. This will in time solve the low birth rate and greying problem.

Think of it as foreign talent in the armed forces. This is better than trying to get other money grabbing greedy FT nationals to settle here.

Gedanken SG

That’s not a bad theory. However, bear in mind that most Ghurkas return to their families (direct and extended) in Nepal after completing their service. Their ties to the land are pretty strong, so I would not put too much stock in the attraction of an offered citizenship.

paulho SG

Partly true and not true. They return to their land because it has always been a tradition passed down from the british empire days when britan had a treaty with the king of nepal to borrow troops whenever it was required and return once that need is over. So whenever a gurka at the end of his career completed distinguished service with the british,it is the british who always brings them back to the place they were first recruited.

According to the book on gurkas (can't rembr title) these people if they are not in military service have nothing to look forward to. There are no jobs back home even farming is a problem. Many will try for years to get into the british service, those which fail sometimes commit suicide on the way home because they cannot fulfill family traditions to them getting into military service is like getting a degree ... passport to better life. And in recent years the british have shutdown all 3 recruiting stations in nepal due to manpower cutbacks, these people have nothing to look forward to.

In the end the pangs in the stomach and family traditions will be stronger than ties to land.

Xprobe SG

Amusing sight…remembered a TV live feed of Timor, commentator was talking about British Troops under fire while the TV showed a Gurhka section patrol commander speaking Napalese into his radio set…took awhile for me to register

kevstral SG

Despite being NSF, you are meant to be as professional as any regulars in the rest of the army. I will treat you as professionals and in turn I expect you to act like professionals.". This OC was in fact rotated to us from SOF simply to do his OC tour. Everybody kept their end of the bargain, and things ran fine with a small handful of exceptions.

I always feel the distinction between NSF and Regulars are over emphasized, whether it is from the CDO or Army, etc... More often than not, I feel that regulars are less than capable in fulfiling their duties. No offence meant, but as a former NSF, I fhave seen my fair share of highly unmotivated regulars who are wasting taxpayer's money. Mindef should really come down harder on these inefficient regulars and give the boot when necessary. What use is it in depriving them their performance bonus year in year out, send them to different units or condemn them to some obscure posting? They are still wasting and eroding the very essence of being in military.

One fine example I can quote was a few years back when a couple of friends went for their company tactic course (my friends were NSF), This is one of those course where you get your fair mix of NSF and regulars. Throughout the course, some of the regulars were just simply performing way below the required standard, end up having NSF assuming some of the appointment which were meant for the Regulars. Best in course went to a certain NSF, a great insult to the regulars, and from then on, the CTC best in course was divided into 2 category, best in course (regulars) & best in course (NSF). Wonder if its still the same?

My point is, it is always easy to assume that NSF will not perform as hard with as much committment as a regular, but that assumption is absolutely flawed, I didn't think your OC needed to make that speech to those NSF, he needed to make it to his regulars, for I feel, sometime NSF holds more pride in their uniform than regulars. But thats from the perspective of a former NSF (me), what do you think? cheers...[/quote]

Gedanken SG

I have close ties with the Nepalese community in Melbourne - how that came about is a long story. Anyway...

Admittedly, most of the Nepalese I know are of different castes, but the ground-level view I get from them is that there is a significant monetary incentive for joining the Gurkhas, over and above the prestige of being accepted. Those who do go off to Britain tend to save their money, return and use their savings to buy land.

I had forgotten to account for the recruitment cutbacks, though - perhaps you are right and there is an opportunity for another army to step into the gap that the British have left. Then again, the entire structure of the British Gurkhas would have to be established first if the results are to be reporduced.

Xprobe SG

I agree with you. There was once in my unit where an Ops NCO complained to my CSM that my friend and I (both CPLs) dont show him any respect. My CSM ask him 2 questions and killed the discussion:

1. Do you think they can do your job? (yes)

2. Do you think you can do their's? (no)

From an NSF's perspective, respect is often given to the higher rank's abilities and how he conduct himself as a person. It is not just about rank.

Gedanken SG

kevstral, I agree that there are many regulars out there who really have no business making a career out of the military – the example I provided is a clear case of this. However, the pertinent aspect of my OC’s message was that our being conscripts is of less significance than our being part of the unit, with its culture. It was a matter of us taking the job as seriously as if we were making a career out of it, rather than just marking time for a few years.

« Previous Page