New Audi A4 vs. New 3 Series

last SG · 2005-01-12T23:13:42+00:00

looks?! Geez. what can I say? They look ah….. shudder unusual.

elindra SG

Ged, I have the exact same feelings as you.

Actually the Volvos look pretty good now especially their SUVs

The Rover is the ugliest though

Gedanken SG

Fair enough, Gaz, but your initial question was about how they look.

BMW's engineering is pretty good, although, like Merc, their participation in F1 doesn't mean much - if you went by that measure, you'd be considering a Honda before you considered a Bimmer.

Audi have a tendency to jump the gun and release technology before it's been satisfactorily worked out - remember the mess with their aluminium chassis? I had a number of friends who dumped their A4s at that time.

Gazelle SG

Actually i would disagree with your above statement.

Audi image has always been reliabilty and that is why they have invested so much money in the 24hr Le Mans race, which they won year after year.

Aluminium chassis is not exactly a technology, it is more about weight distribution. I think the only major problem about aluminiun is that it is difficult to repair if there is a knock, other than that I dont see anything problem with using this material. If I remember correctly, the new A6 and A8 are both made of aluminium body and they are both very popular in Singapore.

You might highlight which generation of A4s are you talking about. Are you refering to the 1.6L model 2 generation ago?

Gazelle SG

Merc is good, but they are over priced and they include too many expensive electronic gadget that you dont need and have too many glitches.

Honda have been absent from the F1 scene for a long time and it is only about 3 to 4 years ago that they got involved again. Although they are the no.2 in the constructor last year, but I think that they will need another 2 to 3 years to catch up with BMW and Merc in engine design. In fact for japanese car, toyota is the only brand that can challenge BMW and Audi.

Gazelle SG

Are you refering to the XC90? yeah I like this car too..

Audi challenger to XC90 is coming.. Smile but I think it is going to be more pricey.

[email protected] SG

hmmm true. u have a point, but really, saab and volvo's low boost turbo technology for cars are a specialty. Also, For that same reason, I'd actually pick a mercedes over these 2. Audi's domination is slowly ending, even though they r dominating thru the Bentley brand. I believe when Aston Martin makes a return to Le Mans this year with the DB9, it might, JUST might spell the end of the Audi-VW domination. BMW, Mercedes, didn't quite do so well in 1 last year. I guess in a way, you can't really judge what car to buy by the performance of their formula 1 teams. Ferrari, well, is Fiat, and we know most Fiats r rubbish(personal liking for the Stilo). Dun think ppl would be flocking to buy Fiat. Um... Honda is 2nd. Their cars r nice, yes, but they don't really have a hand in the Junior Exec market, if you compare the volume of Accord sales to the German big hitters?. Renault... well... what can I say... their past attempts at cars in the junior exec segment have been duds. Think: Vel Satis, Laguna.
Anyways, what u say about resale value is true. I only wish that BMW and Audi weren't embroiled in a "I've got the uglier car" contest with each other. Is it me or is Mercedes the only German car that looks good now?

[email protected] SG

Laughing

[email protected] SG

very much so.

[email protected] SG

damn damn. did i just say the same things as u did? Laughing

[email protected] SG

toyota? yeah. but... look at their F1 team... if they aren't getting results this year, they are canning the whole F1 project.

[email protected] SG

ok thats a nicer looking Audi

Gazelle SG

Toyota is the youngest team on the grid (lets not talk about the new red bull team that bought over Jaguar) and it will be foolish of you to expect them to be winning races like William, Ferrari, Renault or Mclaren in their 3 season.
Although their preformance in 2004 was a disappointment, but they have managed to produce one of the most powerful and reliable engine on the grid. The only problem that they have is the aero dynamic of the car.

Now that they have got Mike Gascoyne as technical director, Ralf and Trulli as drivers, I am sure you will be able to see Toyota on podium in 2005 and winning races in 2006. F1 is all about money and budget and we all know the Toyota is the richest car company in the world. The reason why Toyota wants to get into F1 is because they are intending to take on BMW and Merc in the luxury sedan segment and I doubt they will simply give up without fighting. btw, what make you say that 2005 is a make or break season for Toyota?

In term of road cars, their Lexus ES, LS and RX series are definitely in the league of BMW and Merc. In fact I was told the their LS and RX series are doing damn well in the USA market, taking away customers from BMW and Merc.

[email protected] SG

yeah I know about ralfie and Gayscoyne(aka bulldog) n trulli. but honestly, I don't view trulli as championship material. when he's motivated, hes fast. when he's not, he's crap. i also know about their engine. the point is, an F1 car is a sum of a whole. Last year, to be honest, they were underperforming. I had actually expected them to beat Jaguar F1, which by then were in dire straits. when i said they r underperforming, i meant they underperformed in view of where i expected them to be(ahead of Jaguar at least)

As for what made me say 05 is a make or break season, I read in a report of the Toyota F1 car's launch of the head of Toyota saying that if 05 does not yield any results, they'd have to reconsider their involvement with formula 1.

Gazelle SG

Merc C, E and S class is not really a driver's car, unless they are sent to AMGs for modification. Merc have comfortable ride and good rear leg room for the towkay. In term of road handling, I still prefer the BMW or Audi.

In term of reliabilty, I believe you will know that Merc has to recall up to about 680,000 passenger car in 2004 because of their faulty expensive Sensotronic Brake Control system. Will I want to pay for something that is so damn expensive and doesnt work? I dont think so. In 2004, Merc F1 engine blew up at almost every race of the seaon until the MP-19B was born.

Bentley is a super luxury car brand under the VW group, and it is of a different class as compared to BMW Merc and Audi. Dominating? I dont think so. These are for very niche market tareting at the super rich.

If Audi can successfully take on giants like Ferrari in Le Mans, what makes you think that Aston Martin will threaten Audi?

The new design of the 3 series and Audi will set the trend for single grill design. Like it or not, I am sure more and more car manufacturers will adopt the single grill concept. I think you need to look at the design with an open mind before labelling it as ugly. To me ugliest design in this class is the BMW 7 series. It was a known failure and BMW is coming out with a facelift very soon.

Gazelle SG

Trulli might not be a championship material, but he will compliment Mike very well in the car aero development. Of course this has got to do with their past working relationship in Renault.

Toyota must have invested at least $1 billion in F1 by now, and after signing all the high profile drivers and engineer, I dont think they can quit as yet. I am sure Ralf manager would have already touch on this topic before allowing Ralf to sign the contract with Toyota.

Moreover, Toyota intention in F1 is to be the champion, not the best of the rest. And we all know that 2005 will not be their year.

[email protected] SG

um ah, as far as I'm concerned, I love driving the Merc very much, as if you know how to, u can make it "misbehave" even with the pretty low spec 200 Kompressors. I should know. I've done burnouts, U-turns at 80km/h, powerslides etc. with the family E200 Kompressor. Razz Also, our car wasn't recalled, pricewise, its not too far off a BMW and Audi, and certainly, it looks good, which I think was the tone this thread kicked off on. Smile Yes the McLaren cars were DNFing with alarming regularity in the 1st half of 2004 but actually, only 4 DNFs were caused by engine failure, including a double DNF in Nurburgring. By Canada, the engines were becoming reliable, and by Silverstone, they were challenging Ferrari. The team suffered just one more engine failure on Kimi's car at Italy. Comparatively, Williams suffered from 2 mechanical failures attributable to BMW, an engine failure in Malaysia and a gearbox failure in Belgium. If we were talking about engine reliabilty, then BAR Honda was actually as bad. They sufffered 5 engine failures throughout the year. So no I don't actually think the Merc was particularly bad, just underpowered. It did not blow up at virtually every race in the 1st half of the season since the 1st half of the season consists of 9 races, which means there are 18 chances to blow up the engine, of which there were only 4.

As for Bentley, what I actually meant was that they dominated Le Mans and generally FIA GT last year. Sorry for being unclear on this point. And what makes me think Aston can challenge Audi/Bentley in Le Mans is the people behind the team at Aston, namely prodrive. Familiar? they prepred Colin McRae's Ferrari 575M GTC last year. It the resurgance of the great Brit GTs again, last year Bentley had their show. This year I believe Aston would be it.

As for design, well to be honest, I am very much with another sch of design, which is the Renault's quirkiness with the Megane and the Citroen's innovative take on the C4. Those are what I consider good designs, along with the more traditional shapes like the Mercedes SL, SLK and E designs. Other notable design mentions include the new Vauxhall Astra and the New Golf(esp the GTi!!! whoooot!)

[email protected] SG

when i mean results, i mean the results that the team has set for themselves: eg. finish in the points consistantly, qualify in the top 10 etc...

when the head of toyota mentioned the "results or else" comment, it wasn't based on winning, but on achieving the team's targets for the year. That was why last year was a failure for them. They failed to achieve their target. One thing I've learned about F1 is that, the most off-handed remarks are often the most accurate ones, because they haven't had time to be turned into PR-speak by the PR people within the teams. Ralf might have a contract, but IF toyota were to pull out of F1, there is nothing he can do really. Yeah he can sue, they give him $, and he's still without a seat.

So once again, I state this: Toyota MUST achieve their targets for the year, or else, the boffins at Toyota will start to lose confidence in this whole adventure, and consider pulling out, much like Ford has done. Remember, it is never good for your F1 cars to be seen pottering around at the back of the grid, new team or not. That is how corporate boffins think, unfortunately.

Gazelle SG

I am positive that toyota will deliver this year. the head of toyota remarks is just to shut the mouth of shareholders.

[email protected] SG

I hope so. But seriously, after seeing Trulli's performance in the 2nd half of last year, I'm not sure he will perform. Of Ralf, I feel more sure about him, because even after missing 6 races, he showed not much loss in form, taking a 2nd place at Japan. Pity about that puncture in China.

Gazelle SG

Yeah, I like the GTI, Top Gear car of the year. The only problem with the Golf in Singapore is the sound system. For a standard golf 1.6, they only have a factory fitted single disc player. Dont even have a changer and MP3 player. Not sure if the GTI will be the same.

What about the new Passat?

« Previous Page Next Page »