guards light strike vehicles

last SG · 2003-04-05T23:32:03+00:00

lol~ *scary voice* remember the official secrets act~!!!

Matlaysia SG

Compared to the US humvees of the 101st Airborne, our LSV seem to be under armoured with no protection for the crew at the sides and at the head level despite the fact that both of them perform the same function. What do you guys think?

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

I think it’s crazy… what are the guys at ST thinking? That the bullets will automatically miss them?

CenturionMBT SG

i tot they are similar to the delta vehicle of the us forces?

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

If used for spec ops ultra rapid mobility deployment, I’ve nothing to say. But it appears they intend to use the flyer for mainstream scouting purposes as well, which is probably sucidal if they encounter an enemy which manages to get a burst of fire at them. They are completely exposed.

foxtrout8 SG

I think u are comparing more of an apple to an orange.

The LSV is to increase mobility of the Guards in our Jungle / Tropical terrain which not many vehicle can do that. The Humvee surely is a no no in such condition. Other than that , the LSV is choosen because it can be transport in reasonable numbers by helicopter to suit our rapid deployment requirement while again not many jeep can provide such luxury.

Abt protection , i dun think it is a problem because the LSV's agility allows it play hit and run warfare. During fighting , firepower from other vehicles will cover the LSV as it run the frontline. Notice that the LSV are armed with rather long ranged and heavier lnfantry weapon. The spike alone give them a strike range of 4 to 8kms.

Abt recon , i believe the LSV are designed for light recon mission where not much resistence will be seen. Ambush frequented LRRP will be carry out mainly by Commandos , Infantry scouts and Fennec Light Heli.

My two cents...

ah san SG

Hi, well u r pretty close abt the operations of LSV. wat can i say? we reflected the under protection problem for yrs and after so long there's still little done... Rolling Eyes

sure there were the bulletproof vest and protection "blanket" but nothing concrete...

To the big shots in mindef, the adding of armour protection will be a scarifice on speed and mobility on the lsv.so wat they did was to increase the firepower...

juz for curiosity who were u refering to abt providing cover for the lsv ?

would like to think of our Lsv role as a hybrid btw the delta fast attack(FAV) and Humvee, hence that's why i was trying to find out more in a previous thread...abet no results Sad

Actually, even though with our little or no protection, i'm still confident abt surviving in the Lsv due to the tactics and operation plans... Very Happy

juz to add, there was once when we wayang for a US general for a demo ride, after the ride he was deeply inmpressed with the vehicle's mobility compared to his humvee and that LSV was more stable than their Delta FAV Laughing

also remember that during a joint exercise with the MArines, who brought their humvees, they were very interested in our LSV not so much the vehicle but our mode of operations Smile

But guess back then we were still a hushy little project, hence there went my chance to go on US exercise!!! Sad

juz FYI the most impt quality of the LSV is its versitility...eg. in the way it can be used, for wat purposes and who to use it...

ls trooper : Cool

Matlaysia SG

Also, any idea what is the strenght of a guard division, 3 brigades worth of guards and their support equipment? The funny thing about the 101 Airborne is that they and the guards are similarly equipped.

Singapore 101 Airborne
AH-64 Apache Ah 64 apache
Super Puma Blackhawk
Chinook Chinook
LSV Humvee
105 mm Giat Howitzer M119 105mm Howitzer

Any idea what is the purpose of the guards as a lightly armed rapid deployment force will be mince meat when it meets a heavy division? As far as the war in iraq is going on, it seems that the 101 airborne is used as crack troops to sweep up the remnents of saddam's fighters and to create forward bases for arming of apache helicopters. In our case, is there really a need for such a force considering that they are so lightly armed and will be vunerable to sharpnal and small arms fire?

ah san SG

erm sorry when u meant lightly armed u were comparing to? Confused

anyway first and foremost we must always remember that the SAF is not formed as an offensive force but as a defensive deterence...

well, the guards are used for their mobility in force therefore being heavily armed would hinder speed and resources. Very Happy

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

I dun see how it’s agility can help it run from bullets, people anyhow spray in your general direction no matter how fast you can run or dodge with that thing, if the bullet has your name on it you’re dead liao. Putting just some panels to protect against 7.62mm will greatly increase survability. Also, it must be some good terrain to allow the LSV 4km of clear ground to get a LOS shoot with a missile. Most of the time engagement distances are much nearer then that. Sorry, right now as it stands, the LSV appears to me nothing more then an overglorified dune buggy that is very poor when it comes to combat roles.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

The LSV can’t afford to take a single hit, even a single a single bullet on a path intersecting the crew compartment will be disasterous, and seeing how open and exposed it is, virtually any shot you fire to hit the LSV near the center of mass will end up passing through the passanger compartment. Even in areas where resistance is light, you’re gonna take some fire. Imagine them using the LSV in areas like Um Qusar or Brasa fighting, or even just to scout. A single infantry man firing at it with aimed shots will be bad liao. How fast and agile can you go to avoid the bead of a trained shooter?

foxtrout8 SG

Yes , very much our Guards are very much shaped from the 101( combine armour , heli support ) , the US rangers ( rappling operation [eg . Somalia ] ) and US Marines ( Amphibous operation ).

However , our needs and the US needs is different . LSV is indeed vulnerable to light arms , but the fact is that LSV will operate in mission whereby in constead friendly support and certainly not a rambo in fighting alone. Im not from the Guards , surely i dunno how the Guards will utilies their cars , however logic will tell mi that if the situation prove too dangerous for LSV , i dun think the LSV will be deployed . Even if it deployed , support will be there for them. All we want is that they move faster than the enemy , punch harder than the enemy and get their ass out faster than anyone. Thats y the LSV is choosen.

I disagree that the LSV is light arm. Comparing the mobility cum weaponary ratio of the LSV to the HUMVEE , our LSV will win.

Two cents...

ah san SG

no problem bro Very Happy the panel idea was suggested b4 but due to tactical reasons(i dunno if i haf clearance for these sorry) the panels could and would only be placed in front for the driver...nonetheless nothing was done...

i admit abt the vulnerablity to bullet spray and no amt of speed is going to help but the fact is how close the aggessor would haf to get to the Lsv...but saying that the worse enemy the LSV would haf will be artillery bombardment and Infrantry ambush Crying or Very sad

as for missile fire think there was some misconception 4 km is not the min distance for spike, if my memory serves me rite..its abt 2km,as for the milan, it can be around 1.7km dun quote me but thats the dist they use for live firing at LCK Smile

BTW spike does not neccesary require LOS, it's got a remote control feature with warhead view to lock on to target.

well, never said it was fantastic, always seems that the big shots were more excited then us...the end users Confused
must be a novelty thing...would probaly die down once a new toy comes along...like the new light tank? Wink

combat capable anot i dun noe but must say there seems to be nothing that is comparable to wat the LSV does for each diff combat role. Very Happy

ps. the moment i got drafted into LSV oredi understood that casualty is highly and very possible...

foxtrout8 SG

Hey Ah^San , seems like u are from the Guards.

The spike that our Guards are using is the NT version or the ER version???

Another question is that , how many LSV do the Guards operate ???

Flight Cadet Officer SG

LSV is not compatible with humvee.

Humvee is more of transportation wherelse LSV is for offensive purpose.

Yes the crew is under armoured and this vehical suffers damages easily according to my reports.

ah san SG

hi, yup WAS from the guards, orded almost 4 yrs liao Very Happy
(shows u how long LSV was a hushy affair?)

not too sure abt the version now btw NT and ER refers to wat? Confused sorry lah CCC (civilian conversion course) passed out !!

erm as for the LSV no.can't really tell u cos dunno clearance a not...
i noe bks and jane mght haf quoted b4 but beta safe then sorry

lets juz say we are well into the hundreds and yes ready to be deployed. Cool in fact its being used in EAST timor now..

ah san SG

same msg…

warspite SG

I always thought Armour units are the ones to take up the thrust of any offensive/counterattack, then with Guards to perform flanking moves or clearing of remnants of enemy forces. Well, I’m no great strategist nor professional military man, can anyone care to enlighten me (without leaking secrets&#8230 Wink ?

Flight Cadet Officer SG

Runner for Commander 21st Div. Brigadier General Chua Chwee Koh.

looks like a major is gonna get his ass fried. Investigation in the midst in regards to an LSV incident.

ah san SG

huh? Confused during my time still was Bg. SU

wat happened? my time also got casualty but in the end hushed up... Cool

Flight Cadet Officer SG

Flanking is a strategy, not job scope.

There are 3 Guards Bridage. Specialize in Air, Land, Sea, Recon (BRC), LSV

LSV is designed for offencing troops and light armour vehicle. You may mount a GPMG infront and a TOW or another GPMG above the LSV.

Guards basically clear the way after the Commandos, and than comes the trusty Infantry