[-t-] SG actually the ASTROS II ( NOT ASTRO II ) was couldnt be fired from somewhere else bcoz the A2 was fired during a ceremony(not sure what ceremony). and if the A2 was fired somewhere else, the officials wouldnt be able to see the firing from the place where the ceremony was held.
|-|05| SG Originally posted by [-t-]: actually the ASTROS II ( [b]NOT ASTRO II ) was couldnt be fired from somewhere else bcoz the A2 was fired during a ceremony(not sure what ceremony). and if the A2 was fired somewhere else, the officials wouldnt be able to see the firing from the place where the ceremony was held. [/b]rephrase pls...cant understand i mean are you saying that the A2 was fired not as a public live fire but as a part of a ceremony whereby the firing was part of the program?
Innocent_Malaysian SG i forgot what cermony. but i think its anneversary of TDM. but actually, the firing was one of the main things
|-|05| SG ahh so it was a ceremony where the firing was part of the program and not a public showing of the A2....ok thx for clarifying
observe SG what talking you.....the previous flat i stayed always got spalling ceiling problem! HDB block built with reinforce concrete....my foot! I rather take my chances hiding in the lokang.
tripwire SG your flats spalling ceiling does not invalidate the strength of all HDB flats which are build with reinforced concrete... in fact... its because your previous flats have reinforced metal bars in its concrete that causes the spalling of the concrete when water seeps into it..
observe SG Yah, i've seen the corroded metal bars...but i don't consider that kind of reinforcement good enough seeing how thin those metal bars. BTW, I have also been to the WTC (before it collapse)....there is really no comparison with the low quality HDB block that we have. The WTC was actually designed to take the impact of an aircraft, though they did not consider the gallons of fuel from the aircraft. If you so strongly believe in the structure of the HDB block...well good luck to you! Like I say, I'm taking my chances in the longkang!
tripwire SG of course.... to each his choice... since you like longkang... but i heard that HDB flats can supposedly (or at least built) can withstand an earthquake of about richter scale 5 to 6.... secondly... i have heard also.. that the future HDB flats will also come with shock absorbers at the base of the flat.... to better withstand a conventional arti strike...
tripwire SG oh... if you want to hide in the longkang... i would reccomend those covered longkang... i think safer... alothough... those concrete isnt as strong as a HDB flat
Atobe SG Would not count on the concrete structure of the HDB to withstand any artillery strikes, at least not from a "rain storm" of rockets from a battery of MRLS. Even Saddam Hussein's hardened concrete shelters were blown open, when penetrated by a single laser guided bomb that got in via the vent shaft. The HDB block will collapse like a stack of card, like the New York WTC, when the weight from the upper floors crashing down, caused a multiple downward pressure that fold the entire structure into itself. Will HDB use concrete that are specially formulated for use in the storage of our SAF ammunition ? What will be the cost impact to the buyers of HDB flats built with such special concrete ? The only prospect of a safe HDB flat will be an inner bomb shelter, that is stacked one on top of the other, to serve each family unit. The external building structure can crash down leaving the column of bomb shelters standing vertically skyward. The next problem is for the SCDF to reach the bomb shelter on the Twentieth Floor, to bring the occupants down when the entire building structure is no longer existing.
tripwire SG how could you compare the destructive power of a laser guided bomb of several thoudsand pounds against a submunition that carries less the 10kg of explosive, unguided and have no known penetration ability like the US bunker buster?? furthermore... very often the allies discovered that.. while the LGB did hit the target and on some occasion massively damage the building... the building superstructure continue to hold!!... it wasnt obliterated nor was it leveled down to the ground.... perhaps wat is lacking have been the absence of a field test of the HDB flats strength against an arty strike.. mayhaps one day the SAF might consider conducting such a test to determine the survivalbility of HDB flats in intense conflict... finally... unlike LGBs that explode on impact... submunitions explode on proximity fuse... which makes hiding in the longkang a far more dangerous attempt then hidding in the HS of HDB flat where the external superstructure would take the blow from such an explosion....
laser51088 SG Atobe, I've heard of this inner bomb shelter, but I doubt it is meant for use in a situation when the rest of the building comes crashing down. It probably is meant for use when the rest of the building is cracking up BUT has not totally been destroyed yet. Also think about it, even if the shelters remain standing while the rest of the building falls, how do the people in the shelters get out?? The lower floors will be trapped by rubble and can't get out, the middle floors will have to crawl down the rubble and pray it does not collapse more, and the upper floors can only watch other climb down or jump and hope they don't break too many bones when they land! Currently, Singapore does not as yet have enough shelters for the whole population. I wonder if any stations along the new MRT line can be used as bomb shelter. It makes sense to strengthen them and then use them as shelters if they're underground. And many of you will be mobolised even before the bombs and rockets start flying and falling so you don't have to worry about where to hide. my two cents
tripwire SG if my mathematics serve me well... 1km square is equal to 1,000,000 meter square.... the rocket weight 545kg.... after minus the propellent to fly so far.. and the superstructure and other sub structure of the rocket... the actual explosive carried by that rocket is equal to perhaps around 100kg at the very very very best estimate(probably far lower)... 100kg is equal to 100,000 grams... dividing this over an area of about 1,000,000 meter square... assuming even distribution of explosive power....each meter square will recieve about 0.1 gram... of HE at 0.1 gram per meter square.... i think my house match stick got more "fire power" assuming 64 bomblet carries a total of 100kg explosive... each bomblet carries less then 2 kg of HE... which is nearly impossible to take down a HDB flat... a study by indian defense scientist noted that a submunition carrying at least 10kg HE is needed, to at least damage (not destroy) a concrete structure... feel free to correct me if i am wrong...
CX SG Firstly: they did not buy an artillery saturation system to hit HDB flats! second: having thus established that the system is capable of pinpoint accuracy in the Gulf War, why bother dispersing them over 1 square km??? wouldn't it make more sense to saturate and hit 10 or 100 square metres? an RV, a HQ or even infantry troops on the move.
laser51088 SG Originally posted by CX: [b]Firstly: they did not buy an artillery saturation system to hit HDB flats! second: having thus established that the system is capable of pinpoint accuracy in the Gulf War, why bother dispersing them over 1 square km??? wouldn't it make more sense to saturate and hit 10 or 100 square metres? an RV, a HQ or even infantry troops on the move. [/b] YEAH! FINALLY. . . SOMEONE WITH THE INTELLIGENCE TO REALISE THAT MLRS ARE NOT MEANT TO KNOCK DOWN HDB! *clap**clap**clap**clap**clap**clap**clap**clap* I think the astros are really meant for what their name suggests, 'artillery saturation'. Before the astros, M'sia lack sufficient arty to counter Singapore large numbers of 155mm arty, the introduction of the astros will force singapore planners to rethink the possibility of a rocket strike on the artillery guns. HQs and other command posts are worthwhile target for the MLRS too. I think hitting infantry or other such targets will be a secondary consideration. Lke someone mentioned bove, the idea of using MLRS is to saturate the whole area with many rockets, so that the chance of getting a hit is assured. If they intend to plaster a whole big area with the minimum number of rockets possible, why bother with the MLRS? my two cents
foga SG Originally posted by CX: [b]Firstly: they did not buy an artillery saturation system to hit HDB flats! second: having thus established that the system is capable of pinpoint accuracy in the Gulf War, why bother dispersing them over 1 square km??? wouldn't it make more sense to saturate and hit 10 or 100 square metres? an RV, a HQ or even infantry troops on the move. [/b]with malaysia's introduction of ASTROS II in the region, i'm thinking, will singapore decide to introduce a similar capability like the MLRS?
observe SG perhaps SAF did not test the survivalbility of HDB flats becoz...the results may be not what you would like to imagine it to be! If the field test results is disastrous, we have a massive panic in sg. Imagine, 90% live in them!! The new HDB flats, even worst....with all those floor to ceiling glass panels....nice to look at.....bet these glass panels will shatter just from the sound waves of the explosions. BTW, my calculations is just so show what could happen from this MLRS system, of couse in real situation you would also expect a whole range of projectiles coming in ... not just submunitions from MLRS but also 155mm shells from their G5 etc etc.
observe SG if you think its only 0.1kg of HE for each square meter...why bother to hide ..... maybe you can prove your theory and stand in the open field. I really don't know how much HE per sqm, so I play save and take cover.
laser51088 SG phueeey. . . HDB flats are for you to live in them. . . I won't mind living in a HDB flat with floor to ceiling glass panels even if the whole thing gos kaput in war time
CX SG aiya! so kiasee... go dig a hole in a reservoir park and live there lah... sure safe one... except for the snakes, the mosquitoes and the occassional buaya... if someone wants to blow up a few HDB flats, they'll always be able to find a way to do it no matter how strong u reinforce the structure. the point is, with their limited firepower, they wouldn't waste it on hdb flats unless one goes stray... in which case, nothing can save u anyway!
