Christian dun believe in Darwin's

stupidissmart SG

Ah .. light from where? Alpha Centauri? (this is for Sid Meier's fans )

I never knew Alpha Centauri gave us our definition of day and night.

Better than someone who don't even know wat is the definitoon of a day Laughing Light from where ? U ask god lah ! HE is the one who say he create light so u ask him the light is from where lor

Yeah yeah .. so you've fallen into my trap. They were smarter than us after all.

As said, the earlier argument is on whether is older men smarter than the modern men. From here, u can only see tat it is smarter than u and me because probably construction is not our forte, but it doesn't means tat they r smarter than the modern men. U r still avoiding the issue and only pick on silly trivial nity gritty while missing the big picture Laughing IS tat a trap ? Tat is probably a very lousy strawman

Shotgun's argument was that they did it even without modern computers. Both mathematical and engineering feat. Many of those constructions baffled us when we first examine them. If they were so "normal", then we shouldnt even be surprised.

It may be amazing... relative to their time. Is tat a sign tat they r smarter than modern men ? If the egytian were to see the monument such as the tallest tower... neh, even the 20 storey HDB, they can see tat it is is greater wonder and harder to make compared with the pyramid. As said, it only baffled... for a short initial time. U can read up the building of the pyramid from the below website and u can find, it is just tedious but not mathematically difficult. MAybe to some individual who liek laying traps, it is mathematically difficult and require computer etc Laughing

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/pyramidworkforce.htm

Yet modern research has demonstrated that as few as eight to twelve men could have actually pulled a 2.5 ton block over an even, lubricated (by water) surface, and twenty men could have drug such a block up a lubricated gradient from the quarries to the Great Pyramid in as little as 30 minutes.

It seems that the more knowledge we gain about the pyramids and other elements surrounding their construction, the lower the estimates for the work force.

More recent evidence suggests that the ancient Egyptians may have been somewhat more astute builders. In the mid 1980s a French/Egyptian team investigated the Great Pyramid using ultrasound technology. Their efforts revealed that large cavities within the structure had been filled with pure sand. This is referred to as the "chamber method", and could have considerably increased the pace of work. In addition, we also know that the Great Pyramid utilized a rock outcropping as part of its core. These discoveries, as Miroslav Verner notes, made all the careful calculations and estimates concerning how many millions of stone blocks make up the Great Pyramid, and the associated speculations, useless.

Icemoon SG

Use your brain .. will God do sai kang Himself? Laughing

It is like saying why didn't CDF do guard duty.

Icemoon SG

no point speculating since not mentioned in Bible.

If I speculate but cannot even show you a single verse as support also no use right?

Icemoon SG

That's true. To each his own.

Many people believe in Fate when it comes to romance. I'm sure some of them dont believe in god that sort of thing. Probably you think Fate is one big bullshit, that's fine.

You can attribute it to 0.000001%. no problem.

Icemoon SG

dun catch u.

Icemoon SG

spurious logic.

might as well dun say evolution happens. maybe the first organisms really came out like a magician trick.

Icemoon SG

there is no proof as we cant use any scientific method.

can try philosophical argument like ontological argument and the stuffs. but then it is only philosophy and we can always find holes in it.

Ray87 SG

Originally posted by Shotgun:

Another observed fact is that humans are no longer as smart as they were. Another sign of de-evolution rather than evolution. I believe that the people of the past were definitely much smarter than us today. They still hold the key to many secrets that we are still guessing. How was the pyramid built? How much mathematical knowledge do the ancient egyptians really have access to?

If according to the theory of evolution, shouldn't the ability to understand these mathematical mysteries have been encoded into our genes somewhat already? Why have they been forgotten?

[/b]

to stupidissmart, i really admire you for your patience in arguing your case. They are convincing and logical to me, because i know that for what you have argued, you have evidences for them.

I stopped reading his post when i reach the part when he says shouldnt the ability to understand these mathematical mysteries have been encoded into our genes somewhat already?

Firstly, the ability to build pyramids and to be able to understand mathematical equations does not equate that the population is smarter than us. Hey come on,i would agree that some of them are indeed smarter than us, but do all those workers who help in building those pyramids understand mathematical theories? They were merely following instructions given by their pharoah. So because some genius came out with the plan to build pyramids u conclude that the whole population is smarter than us?

Secondly, even so if the whole population is smarter than us, you said according to the theory of evolution, future generations would retain this genetic trait also... (three drops of sweat drop down my fore head.) Hey this is more of the Medelian's law of genetic inheritance than theory of evolution. By saying that according to the theory of evolution, future generations would retain this genetic trait, you are assuming that only smart people can survive and dumb people don't. This is clearly wrong as dumb people can also earn their living, survive and reproduce. We will only evolve to be smarter if most dumb people cannot survive and cannot reproduce. So if dumb people are not at a selective disadvantage, why should the population now be smart or be able to understand their mathematical theories?? Our population consist of both smart and dumb people and that is in line with theory of evolution.

Conclusion: shotgun does not understand evolution well enough to argue against it.

Icemoon SG

You can't think critically?

If you say creation took place in 6 days, and one day is really one day, then a fair question to ask is how come we have day and night before the sun was supposedly created?

Look .. you always claim that Christians cannot think. Now it seems that you are the one who cannot think.

stupidissmart SG

U r probably the one tat can't think critically Laughing

There r only 2 conclusions u can get from genesis 1

1. The bible contradicts itself since there cannot be day and night when there is no sun

2. The bible contains errors for declaring the whole world is made in 6 days which science has debunked.

And the trick of your reply is giving an answer which u yourself don't know wat it really means. So why don't u tell me why is there morning and night when the sun is not there ? Why don't u answer the question u posed to others

And further more, I have already stated tat in the 4th day the sun was made. It can be seen tat the sun is used to give it a better seperation of "days" and "night" (day and night is defined was already defined in day 1). So they r really nothing further than tools much like clock and watch to know the time more better. However the idea of "day" and "night" was already fixed since "day" 1. It only made tools to know time better, but it didn't redefine the timeline

stupidissmart SG

Miss out an earlier reply

I never said it doesnt mean a day. Or claim that one day == 1 thousand years. I said it might be a day from God's perspective. Exactly how many human days is another matter.

The Jewish Einstein did highlight us to this possiblity. The twin paradox .. remember?

The sunset and sunrise is even trickier. Erev and Boker .. the Hebrew words for them .. can mean other things too. All the more when they are used in some literary sense.

Why will it be god persective and nto human one ? HE already define a day as a sunrise and sunset isn't it ? U have to prove the contrary, otherwise from reading the passage it really explicitly meant day as a morning an a night. If u say tat the translated version from hebrew is flawed, then prove it out and show me which word is wrongly translated. If u felt tat even simple things like day is wrongly translated, might as well say the whole bible is wrongly translated, especially the points tat doesn't sound logical

Ah .. when did I doubt them? I merely pointed out that absence of evidence != evidence of absence. It remains "unproven" historically. It has to be taken by faith by the xtians.

As said, if such a big event like dead walking occurs, it is gonna be recorded. Tis is probably a bigger event than all the miracles tat jesus performed and surely get recorded since men always wanted to know wat happened after death. It is like someone report in 1960 the zombies is walking on singapore and no newspaper actually write anything on it.

So u r saying tat the bible cannot be trusted since it is man written ? Then might as well throw it all away since every verses and sentence in it can be wrong

Don't get it. Didn't Abraham challenged God .. or was it God challenged Abraham? .. to find even 50 righteous people?

And ? God still kill the people because of the sin they did. It shows god hates the sin as well as the sinners. Your theory tat god does not hate the sinners but hate the sins is not valid in tis.

skyfoo SG

den create the world not sai kang?

Icemoon SG

Ah .. but Genesis 1 didn't use days and nights. It used "evening and morning" - erev and boker in Hebrew.

Your argument is not convincing. Neither will it be convincing to the ancient readers who have no clock other than nature and they will be baffled by your current explanation.

God perspective is very likely since only He was there during creation. No humans were there to see the process. Why must it be human perspective?

The translation is not flawed lah. Just like the literary devices you read in poems and poetry. Erev and Boker may mean evening and morning literally, but their root words mean different things.

Singapore so small .. of course cannot miss out. If it happens in an ulu village, reports are fragmentary at best. Most probably the historian will dismiss such reports.

So u r saying tat the bible cannot be trusted since it is man written ? Then might as well throw it all away since every verses and sentence in it can be wrong

Never said that. Neither should we hug it like a science textbook.

And ? God still kill the people because of the sin they did. It shows god hates the sin as well as the sinners. Your theory tat god does not hate the sinners but hate the sins is not valid in tis.

So what happened to the bargaining? I thought one party challenged the other party to find x righteous pple?

skyfoo SG

bible bible bible, seriously, i firmly believe christians cant think, no brain of their own. just think of the possibility that there's god, he created everything. even an idiot would tell that's not possible.

Icemoon SG

He just say and it happened. Better than eye power in SAF.

Someone no humans yet so no sai kang party. Now we have genetic scientists to do sai kang at higher level. Laughing

Icemoon SG

to each his own bah. Wink

This is Calvinist's argument at its best. Total depravity. I shouldn't say more.

skyfoo SG

may i know ur IQ, by mensa or non-mensa, anything. interested to know the christians' intelligence lvl

laurence82 SG

*peeps in*

*peeps out*

stupidissmart SG

And there was evening, and there was morningthe first day

They use the definition of evening and morning to define the day, and u even know the hebrew meanign to it. And since u can't tell otherwise, it really just means morning and evening.

U felt my argument is not convincing, but it is better than your assumptions. U have no ground which support your assumption at all. U might as well say tat "day" means "gay" or "hay" or meant 1 billion year or donkey years since u totally disregard the definition made in the bible and fix in your own definition

God perspective is very likely since only He was there during creation. No humans were there to see the process. Why must it be human perspective?

However he purposely put in into terms which human understand such as morning and evening which define the day. It is meant for men to understand and there r explicit eleboration on the timeline use. It is from a human perspective and u really have no ground to redefine wat is morning and night for god. I put tis statement down for all to read again

And there was evening, and there was morningthe first day

Isn't tat just read as a "day" by any normal definition ?

The translation is not flawed lah. Just like the literary devices you read in poems and poetry. Erev and Boker may mean evening and morning literally, but their root words mean different things.

U yourself know tat erev and boker means evening and morning. If u felt tat their root words mean totally different things tat states it out. Otheriwse u r just wildly accusing they meant different things when it doesn't

Singapore so small .. of course cannot miss out. If it happens in an ulu village, reports are fragmentary at best. Most probably the historian will dismiss such reports.

Is jesus killed in a ulu place ? It happened in the middle of a thriving city. Reports r not gonna be fragment since the dead really walk on the streets and shouting to everyone and get their attention. How could anyone dismiss such a prominent event ?

Never said that. Neither should we hug it like a science textbook

At that time, their model of the world was their region. Probably some of the prophets were given revelation of this country called China .. bwahaha .. but the people were most probably ignorant of any land beyond mesopotamia

Isn't tat wat u mean in the previous reply ? The bible states tat the flood cover even the tallest peak. So the bible lie ? As said, it don't need to be a science textbook. If it doesn't record the atomic structure or laws of gravity no one is blaming it. But it shouldn't lie or report of wrong things. It shouldn't claim the world is only 6000 years. It shouldn't claim no evolution. It shouldn't claim there is flood tat cover earth till the top of the tallest peak. Tat shows the fallible of the bible

So what happened to the bargaining? I thought one party challenged the other party to find x righteous pple?

So wat has tat got to do with the bargaining ?

The people in sodom is killed by god because of their sin.

Try to refute tis sentence. If u can't refute it then it just shows god hates the sin and kill the sinners over it. IMO he never show any example of loving the sinners and hate only the sin. All tis while he kills everyone who he think r sinners

Shotgun SG

Woah, I believe someone just suan me, saying I dun understand a thing about evolution. Well, nevermind. Let me say again, I was a stonge believe of the evolution theory, and once did argue that creationist theory was without any form of human logic.

But my perspective has changed.

Now, about the Light and Sun thing. That shows how limited our human capabilities to comprehend is. How on earth was light created before a source of light was created? Its not logical right? Impossible right? Light cannot exist without a source.

Like i said, for this, we have to think like a programmer. The concept of light was first created. Then, later, the source of light was created to govern the light. Which means, if the source is there, light is there.

I entered into this arguement knowing well that I would not be able to convince an evolutionist to jump over to the creationist side of the fence. Reason is, that is what we were taught since young. I was taught that a big bang happened, and a unbelievable coincidence of events followed that resulted in the planet Earth being formed. And followed by another impossible coincidence that Earth's position in relation to the sun was just perfect for it to support life. And then followed by another unbelievable coincidence of event, life began to evolve. And thru some strange coincidence, intelligence in life began to develop, and somehow only us humans became the supreme intellect being, that could architect its species into becoming a civilisation.

Be scientific about the probability of that happening?

Its like an explosion in printing house, causing all the ink paper and bindings to explode in multiple directions. The ink all landing at precise spots on the paper, the paper falling in precise order one on top of the other, and bindings meticulously binding the papers, finally resulting in the latest edition of the Oxford Advanced Learner's dictionary. That is much more likely.

The case of Sodom was simple. That was in the genesis chapters of the bible. Man was a fallen creation. And the city of sodom was so full of sin that God's righteousness cannot allow its existence. So where is the tender loving God of the bible that most Christians believe?

Well, first of all, the destruction of the city might have been to prevent the evil from that city from spreading. Dooming all of humanity. And at that time, Christ has yet to die on the cross to redeem their sin. Prophets warned the city, yet, the city refused to believe. There was not much option.

The God of the bible was not just a God of love, that could close 1 eye to allow such evil to continue. He was also a God of Holiness, Righteousness and the judge. If a Judge had to handle a case, where his own son was convicted off, he has handle the case with utmost professionalism. If his son is convicted of murder, and proven so, he still has to sentence his son to hang, despite his love for his own flesh and blood. U get what i mean?

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