Hokkien A Post

Clivebenss SG

sabun - soap.

BanguIzai SG

sabun - soap.

ya very classic

a thing to note for everyone:

the Malay in Sg Hokkien came via the Babas and the Nyonyas. It did not came directly from Malay into Hokkien. thus the slight change in pronunciation when it passed thru the Babas and the Nyonyas.

Clivebenss SG

ya very classic

a thing to note for everyone:

the Malay in Sg Hokkien came via the Babas and the Nyonyas. It did not came directly from Malay into Hokkien. thus the slight change in pronunciation when it passed thru the Babas and the Nyonyas.

Peranakans aside, some words do come direct esp those from Java.

kedai (Malay) -shop

toko (Indonesian) - shop (but with an inclination to larger business)

BanguIzai SG

Peranakans aside, some words do come direct esp those from Java.

kedai (Malay) -shop

toko (Indonesian) - shop (but with an inclination to larger business)

my repertoire does not have kedai

for toko

Reason 1:

toko is pronounced [tho44 khɔ21] with a twist in pronunciation also

Reason 2:

currently toko is used commonly in Indonesia only. but Malay vocab also have.

current Baba and Nyonya have vocabularies in common with those used in modern Indonesian but rarely in Malay.

Example:

Baba and Nyonyas and Indonesians use sendok for spoon instead of Malay sudu

Baba and Nyonyas and Indonesians use sisir for comb instead of Malay sikat

Clivebenss SG

my repertoire does not have kedai

for toko

Reason 1:

toko is pronounced [tho44 khɔ21] with a twist in pronunciation also

Reason 2:

currently toko is used commonly in Indonesia only. but Malay vocab also have.

current Baba and Nyonya have vocabularies in common with those used in modern Indonesian but rarely in Malay.

Example:

Baba and Nyonyas and Indonesians use sendok for spoon instead of Malay sudu

Baba and Nyonyas and Indonesians use sisir for comb instead of Malay sikat

kiat lai (tiam) often refers to the groccery shop, proper Hokkien would be chap hei tiam.

tor kor often as of foreign owned business in local context.

BanguIzai SG

kiat lai (tiam) often refers to the groccery shop, proper Hokkien would be chap hei tiam.

tor kor often as of foreign owned business in local context.

ahh i see

so kiat lai tiam is the Hokkien equivalent

you know what? I don't have kedai equivalent in Hokkien but I have it in Teochew instead! In Teochew the form that I use, it becomes kek ai tiam thus i do not know it deviated from the original kedai pronunciation

Clivebenss SG

ahh i see

so kiat lai tiam is the Hokkien equivalent

In downtown they use proper Hokkien chap hei tiam. Once in Katong and Eunos area the Hokkien there like to use kiat lai tiam. I suppose peranakan influence.

hasene SG

I heard kiat ai tiam and chup huay tiam

BanguIzai SG

In downtown they use proper Hokkien chap hei tiam. Once in Katong and Eunos area the Hokkien there like to use kiat lai tiam. I suppose peranakan influence.

Then how come the Teochew that I speak (originated from West Side) also has kek ai tiam? The West (from Jurong to Choa Chu Kang) doesn't seem to have peranakan influence.

BanguIzai SG

I heard kiat ai tiam and chup huay tiam

oh, so u have also heard the "lai" without the "l" --> become "ai"

BanguIzai SG

In downtown they use proper Hokkien chap hei tiam. Once in Katong and Eunos area the Hokkien there like to use kiat lai tiam. I suppose peranakan influence.

The form of Teochew that I speak, even have a Malay form for "forest" (hutan) pronounced ou tang.

In Hokkien, I have never heard a borrowed Malay form for "forest". All along I speak is "ts'iu na"

hasene SG

oh, so u have also heard the "lai" without the "l" --> become "ai"

yes.

Clivebenss SG

Then how come the Teochew that I speak (originated from West Side) also has kek ai tiam? The West (from Jurong to Choa Chu Kang) doesn't seem to have peranakan influence.

Choa Chu Kang, I know most are An Kuay. Jurong have large Teochew community.

BanguIzai SG

yes.

same same.

this is the 1st time I have heard the ai with an initial "l" as informed by Clivebenss

BanguIzai SG

Choa Chu Kang, I know most are An Kuay. Jurong have large Teochew community.

that's why I am very curious why did kedai entered into Teochew in the West Area, but did not enter Hokkien in most other areas.

same for hutan.

Clivebenss SG

The form of Teochew that I speak, even have a Malay form for "forest" (hutan) pronounced ou tang.

In Hokkien, I have never heard a borrowed Malay form for "forest". All along I speak is "ts'iu na"

In Hokkien secondary forest is "or tan". Primary forest is "chew nar".

Clivebenss SG

that's why I am very curious why did kedai entered into Teochew in the West Area, but did not enter Hokkien in most other areas.

same for hutan.

could be from the large Malay community in West Coast.

BanguIzai SG

In Hokkien secondary forest is "or tan". Primary forest is "chew nar".

My repertoire also dun haf "or tan". Whatever forest all is called "ts'iu na".

Whereas for kek ai tiam and tho kho , there indeed do have a difference as what you have mentioned.

BanguIzai SG

could be from the large Malay community in West Coast.

there is a great possibility.

Clivebenss SG

My repertoire also dun haf "or tan". Whatever forest all is called "ts'iu na".

Whereas for kek ai tiam and tho kho , there indeed do have a difference as what you have mentioned.

Seems these are lost words that was quite common until the mid 70s.

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