blacktoast94 posted :
predict if the CL-P-CL bond angle in PCL3 is larger than the
H-P-H bond angle in PH3.
Memo posted :
bond angle for PCl3 > PH3 (from wikipedia)
so answer is wrong, i guess. arrr this one cannot compare
electronegative of central atom. :qmarkangry:[/QUOTE]
blacktoast94 posted :
the answer says that PCL3 < PH3, reason: bond paairs in PCL3
are further apart than those in PH3, hence lesser repulsion for
PCL3 compared to PH3.
i don't get it. the bond pairs in PCL3 are further apart from
each other - isn't that due to more
repulsion?
and if it is further apart, doesn't that mean bond angle of PCL3
> PH3? :qmarkblackface:
huhh. T.T but i have two sources saying that PH3 >
PCL3...
nvm... wait for Ultima... hahhaahaha.
UltimaOnline replied :
This question is a good example of where exam-smarts come
in.
Before we go into who's right and who's wrong, notice that this
qn is asking about the geometry about a period 3 element
phosphorus, which is strictly speaking, beyond the H2 syllabus,
which will only examine you for geometries about Period 2
elements.
If this qn was about an N atom instead of a P atom, (period 2
elements are way more likely asked by Cambridge), then you'd be
required to state that the electron and molecular geometries for
both NH3 and NCl3 are the same, namely tetrahedral and trigonal
pyramidal respectively, and accordingly, both have the same bond
angles of approximately 107 deg C. (In point of fact, the bond
angle of NCl3 is very slightly smaller than that of NH3, due to
inter-electron repulsion of the lone pairs of Cl atoms; this also
applies to PH3 versus PCl3, more of this below).
However, for PH3 and PCl3, notice that the bond angles vary more
significantly from the theoretical tetrahedral and trigonal
pyramidal electron and molecular geometries, of NH3 and NCl3. There
are two different valid explanations for this difference (ie. N
versus P), one explanation has to do with electronegativity, the
other explanation involving the different atomic radii and
corresponding extent of hybridization required. (Again, strictly
according to the H2 syllabus, Cambridge is unlikely to test you on
geometries about period 3 elements.)
Now, to answer the question on which bond angles are larger :
PH3 or PCl3?
If this question was indeed asked by Cambridge in the 'A' level
exams, the exam-smart thing to do, is to give BOTH answers, *but
with explanations for BOTH*.
You see, exactly like in real life, oftentimes in Chemistry
(which is a fundamental aspect of Universal reality, including
human reality and human psychology), there will be often enough,
conflicting motivations, principles and patterns.
There are valid rationales as to why the bond angles in PH3 *may
be expected* to be larger than the bond angles in PCl3. There are
also valid rationales as to why the bond angles in PCl3 *may be
expected* to be larger than the bond angles in PH3. Professional
chemists will understand and appreciate both conflicting
principles, and based on experimental evidence, conclude which
principle outweights which principle, *but only in a specific
context*.
Let's look at them briefly :
Because the P-Cl bond length is expected to be longer than the
P-H bond length, accordingly we might expect less inter-atomic
repulsion between the 3 atoms (ie. Cl atoms in PCl3, and H atoms in
PH3) bonded to the central P atom. Accordingly, one might surmise
that based on this principle, the bond angles of PCl3 *might be
expected* to be smaller than the bond angles of PH3.
Then again, one has to consider the fact that the Cl atoms have
3 lone pairs, while the H atom has no lone pairs. With 3 lone pairs
around each Cl atom, one would expect a greater degree (pun
intended!) of inter-electron repulsion between the Cl atoms,
compared to the lone-pair-less H atoms. Accordingly, one might
surmise that based on this principle, the bond angles of PCl3
*might be expected* to be larger than the bond angles of PH3.
Experimental evidence has proven that the bond angles of PCl3 is
slightly larger than that of PH3. Then again, it is not uncommon
that (due to either human error, experimental limitations, or
different variables or contexts involved) some other experiments
might appear to prove otherwise. Therefore, it is unsurprising that
different sources, textbooks, or teachers might give a different
opinion on whether PCl3 or PH3 has a larger bond angle.
As you go higher up the University and professional levels,
there is more and more uncertainty, (as opposed to PSLE and 'O'
levels' simplified science "this is black, this is white", because
'A' levels is approaching Uni level, there begins to be) more
shades of grey, and more possibilities to be explored with a more
open mind.
Look back at yourself in your PSLE years, 'O' level years, and
now 'A' level years. And into the future, into your Uni years and
professional working years. You come to realize that "the more you
know, the more you know that you don't know". In PSLE you thought
you knew everything. In 'O' levels, ok there seems to be more to
this universe. At 'A' levels you realize damn all this is just the
tip of the ice-berg. And so on.
Back to the debate about PCl3 versus PH3. Cambridge is (usually)
fair. 'A' level students will *not* be expected to have conducted
or read up on experiments that investigate whether PCl3 or PH3 have
a larger bond angle. But 'A' level students *are* expected to be
able to *think* for themselves (a common criticism of Sg education
system is that students don't think, they just blindly memorize
school notes), based on their current understanding of chemistry,
deduce and explain why the bond angles in PCl3 *might be expected*
to be larger than in PH3, or vice-versa.
Therefore, the exam-smart student who can say "both are
possible" and gives correct explanations for BOTH possibilities,
will earn the full credit (ie. score full marks) for the question.
If the Cambridge mark scheme is fair (and it usually is, though not
always), then full marks may still be obtainable if the student
gives EITHER explanation with the correct relevant conclusion. But
if you're good enough to work out both explanations, then be
exam-smart and give both (with the correct relevant conclusions for
both) and your marks will be more safely assured.