Christianity is Polytheism

Icemoon SG

To add on,

Early Christians did not have problems with the idea of A TRINITY (or a duo-lity, if you exclude the Spirit .. haha), but rather the nature of THE TRINITY.

breytonhartge SG

according to the Brit Chadashah, Mary was not a virgin... Mattityahu 21:25

... but he did not have sexual relations with her until she had given birth to a son, and he named him Yeshua.

Chin Eng SG

strange.... Mattiyahu 21:25 The immersion of Yochanan, where was it from? From heaven or from men?"
They reasoned with themselves, saying, "If we say, 'From heaven,' he will ask us, 'Why then did you not believe him?'

where got say Mary was not a virgin????

somemore.....

Mattiyahu 1:22 Now all this has happened, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying,

1:23"Behold, the virgin shall be with child,
And shall bring forth a son.

They shall call his name Immanu'el;"
Which is, being interpreted, "God with us."

1:24Yosef arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took his wife to himself; 1:25and didn't know her sexually until she had brought forth her firstborn son. He named him Yeshua.

... so Mary was virgin or not hah?

breytonhartge SG

................................... Question

breytonhartge SG

Originally posted by Chin Eng:

strange.... Mattiyahu 21:25 The immersion of Yochanan, where was it from? From heaven or from men?"
They reasoned with themselves, saying, "If we say, 'From heaven,' he will ask us, 'Why then did you not believe him?'

where got say Mary was not a virgin????

somemore.....

Mattiyahu 1:22 Now all this has happened, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying,

1:23"Behold, the [b]virgin shall be with child,
And shall bring forth a son.

They shall call his name Immanu'el;"
Which is, being interpreted, "God with us."

1:24Yosef arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took his wife to himself; 1:25and didn't know her sexually until she had brought forth her firstborn son. He named him Yeshua.

... so Mary was virgin or not hah?
[/b]

then follow on to verse 25... Yosef did not have sexual relations with her UNTIL she had given birth to Yeshua. So to still call her a virgin is denying reality. She is not. After the birth of Yeshua she was not. So why still call her a virgin?

Icemoon SG

need to be a virgin so original sin will not be passed down to Jesus.

Icemoon SG

Then consider these verses:

1 Cor 15:25 - For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

1 Tim 6 - 13In the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14to keep the commandment without spot or blame until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which he will bring about at the right timehe who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords.

Your logic will be absurd if used in these verses, especially 1 Cor.

So the answer is inconclusive lah, after all it was the Catholic Church who gave you the Brit Chadasha, so don't argue with them whether Mary is perpetual virgin or not. Laughing

Chin Eng SG

I can see our dear brey splitting hairs again.... Laughing

the term "virgin Mary" is usually used when describing the birth of Christ. Hence, as long as she's virgin prior to that event, there is nothing really wrong with it.

...this whole thing reminds me of the episode with that pesky kid Huaqing who insisted that Mary is NOT the mother of Jesus....

Icemoon SG

Yup .. this is so that the prophecy in Isaiah is fulfilled.

As to whether she is a virgin after that, it is inconclusive from the text alone.

Chin Eng SG

after that no issue lah... afterall JC is suppose to have siblings, but totally inconsequential to what Mary is suppose to do.

kinda like all US ex-presidents are also called presidents after their term end.

Demonight SG

You forgot Quezacotl and Cthulhu.... Rolling Eyes

Phaze SG

What is your view on the claim that the idea that the mother of Jesus was a virgin was due to a mistranslation of the Hewbrew text?

The Old Testament talks about almah 'young woman,' not bethulah 'virgin.' However, the scholars in the 3rd century BC translated the Hebrew almah as parthenos in Greek. Thus the 'young woman' in Hebrew metamorphosed into a 'virgin' in Greekand she has remained a virgin ever since in translations across the world. The notion of 'virgin birth' was born, thanks to a mistranslation.

http://accurapid.com/journal/18review.htm

I found a counter view here:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071212233718AAYRLSB

However, I don't really agree with that view. The New Testament was written in Greek and I think there were changes and additions done by New Testament writers and editors to make it look like Jesus fulfilled Old Testament prophecy. So th virgin birth entered the canon because New Testament writers thought that was what was supposed to happen due to the mistranslation.

But of course, as the writer points out, this can be a matter of endless debate.

I mean, if we can still argue that there's a genuine controversy over whether evolution occured, how much more so can we argue over what happened over 2000 years ago?

Icemoon SG

Yup, all christian attempts to explain it as virgin are nothing more than using buckets to save a sinking ship. If the gospels are inspired, then the question of the septuagint shouldn't even come into the picture. Don't use the septuagint as the excuse!

Interestingly, Christians used to have the upper hand 'cos the oldest extant copy of the OT used to be the Septuagint, the Hebrew Masoretic dates from around the 10th century Aleppo Codex.

Heng ah, those folks discovered the Dead Sea Scrolls, containing the complete scroll of Isaiah. Laughing

Furthermore, an analysis of the context of Isaiah does not strongly suggest the young woman is a virgin or that the young woman refers to Mary hundred of years later.

Icemoon SG

But, like I've said, it has to do with Jesus not inheriting the original sin also.

breytonhartge SG

When Miryam gave birth to Yeshua, she was a virgin, so what is the issue with her not being one after? how can Yeshua inherit sin after being born? I don't see the connection.

breytonhartge SG

Rolling Eyes

breytonhartge SG

don't see your connection... Question

breytonhartge SG

I have no issue with the Brit Chadashah, but the christian view of the trinity as 3 separate but co-eternal persons is a bit skewed to me... and very paganistic in origin...

and no, I don't watch DVC, it is a whole lot of nonsense... to me.

I think the Hebraic view point on this is more likely... a SINGULAR GOD with a TRIUNE NATURE. Many of mistranslations of the Brit Chadashah come from not understanding that hebrew words have gender specific values.

Icemoon SG

1 Cor 15:25 - For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

So what happens after his enemies are under his feet? Wink

breytonhartge SG

Originally posted by Icemoon:

1 Cor 15:25 - For he must reign [b]until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

So what happens after his enemies are under his feet? Wink [/b]

still CNB....

« Previous Page Next Page »