CPF Scheme

last SG · 2009-08-05T10:57:59+00:00

i hate to be praised......u all are suppose to be angry and challenge me so that i get energised, not praise me...game over liao. I praise you for being a...

angel7030 SG

nani nani poo poo..

Fantagf SG

$10 too low?

But you this type of quality only deserve $10 only and is ringgit dollars not singapore dollars

You give ringgit, no need la, just give hell notes la

Chew Bakar SG

You give ringgit, no need la, just give hell notes la

Communique07 SG

It all depends on how one sees it. I think frm a Govt perspective, their concern is what will happen if the elderly misuse the CPF money? Egg, if u've got a chap who gets enchanted by a beautiful lady who sucks his all his CPF money then what happens next?

Chances are u're likely to hv a guy who's penniless & homeless (assuming his wife divorces him), that's why i think they came out with all those min scheme. I mean, who's gonna take care of this guy? The State? What if there's ten's of thousands of them on the streets? Its gonna be a major social problem, & the state is not going to pay for this but assuming they do, knowing how pragmatic our Govt is , there're likely gonna recover it frm other forms of taxes.

Frm a citizen's pt, let's see if ti makes any sense. Assuming one is paid abt $2,000. CPF by him is $400, by employer, 13% = $ 260. If i based this purely on a ROI perspective, it means when i put $ 400, i get $ 260 return for nothin. Now that's abt 65% ROI on my investment. Wu Hua Boh? Is it to our advantage? Its up to the individual to decide.

What i would be more concern is if our exisitng wages increases to cover our std of living. Otherwise, we would hv a society where we hv high employment rates but marginal or poor household incomes, which is oredi happening. I'm sure the Govt is aware of this, & their challenge is to ensure that salaries increases since it wld be idealistic to assume that cost wld drop drastically over say the next 5 -10 years.

deepak.c SG

Fallacy in your reasoning, you shouldn't be advocating the curtailment of rights of others just because of afew cases. If someone uses a marker to vandalize the lift, does it mean you will ban markers in Singapore. If somebody uses a kitchen knife to kill someone, does it mean you will ban kitchen knives in Singapore. Likewise foreign ladies cheating old men out of their savings is what percentage of the entire population.

Do you understand the meaning of the term return on investment? FYI, the employer CPF contribution rate is not 13%, for private sector employees, it's either 14.5%, 10.5%, 7.5% or 5% depending on your age.

Let's face the facts, our existing wages will never have substantial increases, because government is always saturating the Singapore market with cheap foreign labour to suppress Singaporean wages, to them this would be regarded as competition.

charlize SG

You should take all your liquid assets, convert it to cash and let CPF handle your money.

Really.

deepak.c SG

You should take all your liquid assets, convert it to cash and let CPF handle your money.

Really.

angel7030 SG

you are wrong, you do not know that intensity of singaporeans older men engaging with foreign women here, be it maid, nurse, pros, hostesses, massagers, factory operators, batam gals, thai gals, prc gals etc etc..//..there is one for every old men, i believe that if the govt is to make a study on it, it can be scary. These foreign gals are professional trained to lure Singaporeans, especially those lau lau lonely lonely, CPF withdrew Uncles. Many are conned, just that old men like to preserve their pride and dignity. Even the rich, you got lexus, jaguar, merc waiting at both bar and hospital waiting to pick up their partners. You got old men who just withdrew 50k and wanted to enjoy his life and be away from his old woman. It is not as little as you think hor.

trashbag SG

We should kill all these prostituties including you than singapore will be a peaceful place

deepak.c SG

We should kill all these prostituties including you than singapore will be a peaceful place

Fantagf SG

We should kill all these prostituties including you than singapore will be a peaceful place

Great suggestion!

angel7030 SG

We should kill all these prostituties including you than singapore will be a peaceful place

huh? you can kill me, but please dun anyhow kill the pros, some are real pity ones.

angel7030 SG

Great suggestion!

got suggestion scheme award ar?

Communique07 SG

You should take all your liquid assets, convert it to cash and let CPF handle your money.

Really.

If u're willing to put 65% of every dollar i contribute, ho seh liao, sure can one.

Really.

deepak.c SG

If u're willing to put 65% of every dollar i contribute, ho seh liao, sure can one.

Really.

Wait a second, I thought you said the CPF gives you a return on investment of 65%. Now you want a stranger to give you the 65%.

Communique07 SG

Tolong lah, the curtailment of the CPF is not bcse of Old Hero & damsel in distress. The fundamental reason behind this is based on the 5 decades of Govt principle of self-reliance rather than on state reliance.

And if it means presevation of yr nest egg for yr retirement needs through legislation, then so be it. No happy write letter complain, no my pasar, i'm jst saying as it is.

The old hero & damsel are just examples of what can & hv happen, can there be other examples? sure. But the fundamental reason is based on the principle of self-reliance including retirement planning.

What kind of ROI formulae u use? Mine is very simple one, any layman can understand, not rocket science. 13% is quoted base on what TS had mentioned. But u re right, its a scale frm 14.5%, 10.5%, 7.5% or 5% depending on your age. So let's see if this make any sense:

Based on $ 2000 salary, 20% employee contribution = $ 400. ROI calculation based on for every $ 400 place in CPF by employee, how much does employer contribute.

Employer Contribution
14.5% = $ 290 10.5% = $210 7.5% = $150 5% = $100
ROI = 72% = 52% = 37% = 25%

In it simplest form, ROI here simple means for every $400 u place in CPF, or a bank for example, u get anything frm $ 100 - $ 290. This monthly amt is almost consistent & almost guaranteed as long as one is employed.

If u know of any other investements that yield almost consistent & monthly guaranteed returns pls share, but let's exclude madorf, ponzi scheme & loan sharking.

I think the issue on increasing wages is far more complex than jst removing foreigners. But lets' jst assume 2day, Goivt ban on all foreigners. Where are we gonna fidn the 5 - 8k construction workers in IR? Have we got the local talent pool readily available?

But let's assume we do, cost is gonna increase by at 30 - 60% for firms, if they don't make a decent profit, the only option is to retrench or wind-up. so we get another wave of unemployment.

The crux of the issue here for the Govt in my view is this:

1. How to create jobs which pay salaries that cover the basic cost of living. Just an egg, perhaps say between $1,500 - $ 2,500.

2.How to create a suffcient & consistent critical mass of such jobs.

3 How to ensure that locals get a higher chance fo hiring as compared to foreigners.

Frm what i've read over ST last week, they're focusing on industry automation/ innovation (to increase/maintain output reducing cost) & also to minimize over-reliance on cheap labour.

Simultaneosly, sent workers for upgrading to cope with the new automations. Certification to enhance value & salaries. Will this be enough or effective, or is it only good in theory, only time will tell, but at least they're nt sitting on it, & credit shld be given when credit is due.

So its a holistic approach, consdiering many variable components, we'll jst hv to see how this will evolve but i will be doubtful if we coudl solve this problem by a single stroke solutuon.

Communique07 SG

Wait a second, I thought you said the CPF gives you a return on investment of 65%. Now you want a stranger to give you the 65%.

Huh, did i say CPF pay 65% return or Employer pay?

But anyway, its common knowledge no Govt in the world will give 65% return, sure bankrupt one.

deepak.c SG

And if it means presevation of yr nest egg for yr retirement needs through legislation, then so be it. No happy write letter complain, no my pasar, i'm jst saying as it is.

Based on $ 2000 salary, 20% employee contribution = $ 400. ROI calculation based on for every $ 400 place in CPF by employee, how much does employer contribute.

Employer Contribution
14.5% = $ 290 10.5% = $210 7.5% = $150 5% = $100
ROI = 72% = 52% = 37% = 25%

But let's assume we do, cost is gonna increase by at 30 - 60% for firms, if they don't make a decent profit, the only option is to retrench or wind-up. so we get another wave of unemployment.

The crux of the issue here for the Govt in my view is this:

1. How to create jobs which pay salaries that cover the basic cost of living. Just an egg, perhaps say between $1,500 - $ 2,500.

2.How to create a suffcient & consistent critical mass of such jobs.

3 How to ensure that locals get a higher chance fo hiring as compared to foreigners.

Frm what i've read over ST last week, they're focusing on industry automation/ innovation (to increase/maintain output reducing cost) & also to minimize over-reliance on cheap labour.

So its a holistic approach, consdiering many variable components, we'll jst hv to see how this will evolve but i will be doubtful if we coudl solve this problem by a single stroke solutuon.

Geez!

Do you even follow your own line of argument?

Originally posted by Communique07:

Originally posted by deepak.c:

Originally posted by Communique07:

What happened to your employer CPF contribution of 13%?

Your calculation isn't even proper mathematical constructs, let alone rocket science.

Do you understand the meaning of the term "investment"?

Definition from Routledge Dictionary of Economics:

Investment:

1. An addition to the stock of capital goods in the public or private sector over a given period. Gross investment includes both this net investment and the replacement investment to keep the stock intact. Theories of the determination of the volume of investment include the ACCELERATOR PRINCIPLE and MARGINAL EFFICIENCY OF CAPITAL APPROACHES.

2. The purchase of a FINANCIAL asset.

Employer CPF contribution is just a statutory requirement. Say if tomorrow government waives the 20% requirement, then your so called erroneous ROI will be $290/ $0 = infinity, which is ludicrous. An investment would be something like shares, savings, fixed deposit, hedge fund, forex, gold, etc, a statutory requirement for an employer to pay you an amount based on your salary is NOT an investment. The amount paid by the employer is for the use of your 20% contribution.

Many investments can yield you higher rates of return than the pathetic few percentage points given by CPF interest. Insurance, diversified portfolio in any stock market with a investment horizon of 50 years.

Ermmm, who said anything about banning all the construction workers, they only have to banned jobs that Singaporeans are willing to do. Construction is one industry where the majority of Singaporeans shun, but not jobs like accountancy, information technology related industry, F&B, etc. Why do you see the government still allowing more foreigners to come into take those jobs? It's not like there are insufficient Singaporeans to take them up. Simple reason, they want to drive down the wages of these industry, because prices are always sticky downwards.

Obviously you are clueless, that's why you advocate lower wages from competing foreigners, just like the Singapore government. Have you ever wondered why are things from Switzerland, Denmark, Germany and France cost more than some stuff produced in Singapore? (e.g. Louis Vuitton, Hasselblad, Leica, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, etc) Do you see countries like Switzerland, Denmark, Germany and France having an immigration policy that increases the foreign immigrants to 50% of the total citizen population?

What critical mass are you talking about? You try to use bombastic terms like Return on Investment (ROI) and critical mass without knowledge of the terms. What are you trying to say?

"2.How to create a suffcient & consistent critical mass of such jobs."

Ersfcvxcv2 SG

ALL DESTROYED

deepak.c SG

Huh, did i say CPF pay 65% return or Employer pay?

But anyway, its common knowledge no Govt in the world will give 65% return, sure bankrupt one.

Do you have comprehension problems?

My original statement:

Wait a second, I thought you said the CPF gives you a return on investment of 65%. Now you want a stranger to give you the 65%.

Since when did I say CPF pay you, I said CPF gives you a return of investment of 65%. Afterall you did claim that the 20% you pay into CPF pays you 65%. Your understanding of the term "investment" is extremely warped.

If the government (with it's deep pockets and fiat money) cannot afford risking bankruptcy to give you 65% on your so called return on investment, then I suppose your small time businessman can afford to give you a return on investment of 65%.

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