Israel hits Palestine again while West Cheers Them On

last SG · 2009-01-02T21:30:00+00:00

Surely it is not the case that the more impressive the kill ratio, the more guilty a side should be?The sites targeted were those that were storing or operat...

Atobe SG

Atobe,

I would see to it that several of your claims are rebutted although I will agree to one.

Can you agree to one and not accept the others ?

If Hamas had abandoned its ambition of destroying Israel, would there be any killings of any number of people ?

Hamas and Israel are alike in so many ways. Israeli extremists and hardliners harbour the same thoughts of each other vis a vis Hamas. Killings occured even before the establishment of Hamas. Israel has been found guilty of numerous terrorist activities ever since 1948. I find the claim that the rationale behind the malicious killings of Palestinians is attributed to Hamas and the ones who does the actual killing is innocent and perceived to be the "oppressed", utterly ridiculous. This is contrary to the typical logical mind of any sane person. Moreover, the Israeli politicians have been planning for this since mid 2007. And the IDF southern command has been pressurizing the central command for the green light to attack. The knesset ratified the incursion before the expiry of the ceasefire date.

Those in the Israeli Government are not extremists like Hamas - as the Israeli Government is legitimately elected through an election process.

Hamas has no legitimacy as an authority in the Gaza Strip - with the only recognised legal authority being the Government led by President Abbas.

The Israelis and the IDF has always been planning military reactions according to different scenarious - so does the SAF - is it illegal for a legitimate state to prepare for war in defense of its citizens ?

The fact that the IDF only attacked with the approval of the Knesset showed that it had legal status, compared to Hamas which was not even authorised by the Palestinian Parliament to attack Israel.

Hamas no legitimacy as an authority in the Gaza Strip, as seen in the fact that no Arab Government had recognised the existence of Hamas as an authority.

If Hamas had been able to exercise strategic wisdom and smarter tactics in their confrontation with Israel, would there be any large number of deaths on the Palestinian side compared to the Israelis

I agree with you on this. The casualty ratio will be more proportionate. This is attributed to the ill-equiped Hamas military infrastructure. Militar analysts have pointed out that if the scenario was such Israel were to engaged in a warfare with infrastructure similar to Hamas, their soldiers will be killed.

Have you forgotten the 6-Day War in 1967 - when Israel was outnumbered 10 to 1 ?

The Israeli military infrastructure was nothing compared to the well-armed military forces of Egypt, Syria, Jordan - that immediately borders Israel - and the military contributions from Islamic countries further away such as Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran.

Yet, through its own superior intellect, resourcefulness, ingenuity, intelligence, strategy, and tactics of the Israeli civilian and military leaders, and the quality of the individual rank and file of the IDF - Israel was able to wipe out the most dire threat to Israel as a state, and all concluded in 6 days with minimal loss of lives to themselves.

Israel did not use their own civilian as Human Shield to garner international sympathy, but had instead made the aggressors pay a heavy price despite their better military hardware delivered with the compliments of the Soviet Union.

Why should the cowardly and unintelligent leadership of Hamas resort to hiding amongst the Palestinian civilians in the Gaza ?

Hamas will not borrow your line of argument as their agenda is to win the psychological propaganda war over the Israelis - by causing as many Palestinian casualties as possible after each intentional attack towards Israel.

Is this your own opinion or cited from a credible, neutral source?

Do you need to depend on neutral source, or are you incapable of any independent thinking on your own, or do you doubt your own neutrality to be objective ?

It clearly shows that you are too involved in the conflict for one reason or another.

Is Israel the only one guilty of the killing, or is Hamas not equally guilty for causing the casualties and deaths amongst the innocent Palestinians - by attacking Israel from densely populated areas of Palestinian residences, refugee camps and schools ?

Israel is guilty of the massacre of almost 800 lives, at least half of which are civilians according to U.N sources. Hamas is guilty of the massacre of 13 Israeli, 10 of which are soldiers. The allegation that Hamas largely fires rockets from within civilian areas is still a matter of contention. Prior to the ground incursion by the IDF, I doubt Hamas fired their rockets deep from their own territory. This is due to the fact that Hamas rockets reached Ashdod a city 40km from the Gaza Border and Hamas's projectiles have similar reach only. Due to the ground incursion, the fighting occured within the civilian populations.

Does the balance in numbers make the one side less liable then the other ?

If the Gaza Strip is as densely populated as everyone has claimed, and the Palestinians are packed like rats in the densely packed residences in the Gaza - can there be any space left for Hamas to launch their rockets or fire their motars ?

Is it not obvious that Hamas is firing from the tightly packed residential neighborhoods of the Gaza Strip ?

Only those with an agenda to promote Hamas cause will abandon objectivity and neutrality to deny this fact and classify these as "allegations" and "contentions".

Have you not succumbed to propaganda - which is "Hamas organised effort to promote a particular belief" - that Israelis are massacreing the Palestinians ?

Are you not regurgitating what is being repeated on behalf of Hamas - despite your declared efforts of being a neutral ?

I find your statement that the fact that the Israelis are massacreing the Palestinians is Hamas perpetuated propaganda most disturbing. Neutrality and factual information is being tarnished by blatant, incomprehensible accusations of being Hamas propaganda tools. Hamas releases nothing more than mere rhetoric to the press, short of relevent statistics and figures. It is the humanitarian organizations and personnel working from Gaza providing us with the relevent statistics and facts.

I shall not present my facts and substantiations with regards to oil exploitation as I have yet to exercise my due dilligence on this issue. I hope some others there follow this lead and realise that ample research and study neccessitates any legitimate analysis on this conflict.

Hamas - like the Hezbollahs in Lebanon - are tools used by the Iranians for their well known agenda to see to the total destruction of Israel.

For an organisation that has moved away from the main Palestinian body, and with almost all Palestinians in the Gaza being economically impoverished - have you not question where it is getting the funds to purchase all the rockets, explosives, ammo and weapons from ?

This conflict has been analysed for decades - and missed opportunities for peace have abounded, with the most recent prospects of a two nation state being totalled destroyed by Hamas usurping of the authority in the Gaza Strip.

Any peace between the Israelis and Palestinians that result in a two state resolution to their problems, can only result in Iran's interests being affected.

It will do you well to understand the situation in the Middle-east based on our local community values, and not allow ourselves to be influenced by religious ties, or politics - as their politics has nothing to do with us, nor should we be involved in their form of ethnic links to their religious views, which has always taken precedence over the Theology of their Faith.

Atobe SG

If Hamas had been able to exercise strategic wisdom and smarter tactics in their confrontation with Israel, would there be any large number of deaths on the Palestinian side compared to the Israelis ?

How would you advise the vastly outnumbered and outgunned Hamas to wage war against Israel, the Middle-East's superpower? Let's hear some of your "strategic wisdom".

Will it not be more strategically intelligent for Hamas to wage a political war then a military war ?

Osama bin Ladin might as well borrow your intellect in protesting that after the 9-11 World Trade Center destruction - USA's right to hunt down Al Qaeda and Osama should stop when 500+ Afghans have been killed.

This is totally unrelated, but I'll address it anyway. If the US wanted to catch Bin Laden, it had plenty of chances to do so. After the 1993 WTC bombings, Clinton let him escape after receiving an offer from Sudan to extradite him. Then when the Taliban made the Bush Administration an offer after 9/11, the US refused. After all, the war plans for the invasion of Afghanistan were already prepared before 9/11 and troops were already massing across the Afghan border. That's because Bin Laden's just another CIA front that was hired back during the Afghan-Soviet war. In fact, a day before 9/11, Bin Laden was in a military hospital in Pakistan receiving medical treatment. Dont forget that the CIA and ISI have a rich history of cooperation starting from the Afghan-Soviet war up till this day.

Presumbaly you got your information from Osama ?

No, as I have said many times, both parties are guilty of bloodshed. If everyone agreed on that, instead of trying to condemn one side alone, then there would not be any need to argue on this issue. Would you tell me where in Gaza is it not densely packed? I dont know, but if you can make such a statement, then you must know right? They dont have HDBs for the 1.5 million people there.

Israel had given the Palestinians time and warning to move out of areas that they are planning to attack, and such early warning could also serve as early notice for Hamas to move out of the danger zones.

Unfortunately, Hamas do not reciprocate in similar ways by giving early notice as to where and when the rockets will land onto Europe.

If someone inform the residents that an attack will occur in District 10, surely the residents there will move out and stay in some other adjacent Districts.

Hamas have been known to prevent Palestinians from leaving, and has even gone so far as to recurit - the innocent, the uneducated, the mentally imbalanced, the gullible, the young, the emotionally unstable - to act as suicide bombers.

Have you not succumbed to propaganda - which is "Hamas organised effort to promote a particular belief" - that Israelis are massacreing the Palestinians ?

While "propaganda" does not have any negative denotations, I know that people like to use it to connote lies and misinformation. "Propaganda" is a technical word. I dont think Hamas can wage an effective media war because they dont have the means to do so, unlike Israel, which has taken the media war to Youtube. Anyway, how is it not true that Israel is NOT masscreing Palestinians? Your very stand is based on Israeli propaganda. How are you different?

It seems you are less resourceful then Hamas, and just because you are less imaginative then Hamas - others will not underestimate Hamas nor take them for granted in the manner that you prefer to treat Hamas.

Hamas do not need too much resources to wage an effective media war, as the news chasing reporters are only too eager to enter the war zone to report from the frontlines and to give support to the supposed underdogs.

During the Vietnam War, the less sophisticated Communist Vietnamese was able to mobilise public opinions, and take advantage of the anti-war sentiments in the USA to drive a wedge between the US Government and those would-be inductees into the US Military.

When Iraq and Iran was fighting the seven year war, French companies were in Iran exploring oil and gas.

When the USA was conducting its 'shock and awe' campaign during Dessert Storm I and II - oil companies were continuously pumping out crude in the region.

Gaza is in a totally different context. As you know, Hamas does not have anything that resembles a national military. But how are you proving that oil and natural gas doesn't exist when you're just using your preconception that it does not exist to prove it doesn't exist? In the first place, you're not prepared to accept that. I also dont know very much about this, I've just read this information recently. And of course I would believe it until I read anything credible to the contrary.

How did the oil and gas suddenly appear in the headlines - when decades have slipped by without a squeak of its existence ?

Immediately after the 6-Day war, the oil rich Arab World had formed an oil cartel, and practically held the world hostage to their agenda to move support away from Israel.

It is a known fact that Israel depend on imported oil, and if there is oil in the Gaza - do you think that it will not be detected by the Israelis ?

Israel and Egypt had been at loggerhead since 1967 over the Israeli prospecting for oil in the Gulf of Suez and Sinai - do you think that Israel will not have also taken the trouble to look into the Gaza Strip too ?

Atobe SG

what does HAMAS seek that cannot be settled without rocket fires ?

The land that was taken from Arabs from Israel, first by the UN during the formation of Israel and later by Israel itself during subsequent wars. 4 million Palestinians have lost their homes in Israel, driven out by the Jews for the past 60 years. Do they not have a right to return to their homes? A right which Israel has constantly denied against the ruling of an earlier UN resolution.

So Hamas should not use rockets and suicide bombers against Israel...but what other weapons do they have against Israel? Let the palestinians have the same F16 jets and laser-guided bombs and then require them to target only military installations in Israel.

Should we be constantly amazed by the empty intellect of one that is supposed to have had the benefit of passing through the halls of Oxford ?

Did the Israelis resort to terrorism when they were vastly outnumbered by the masses of Arab forces that forced Israel to conduct a pre-emptive war that gave them complete superiority in a 6-Day War in 1967 ?

It was through superior intellect, creativity, resourcefulness, and discipline in the rank and file of the Israeli population that gave them victory in 1967.

This is certainly lacking in the Hamas leadership, who had displayed total callousness and irresponsiblity in attacking Israel without preparing themselves and the civilians - in the same manner as the Hezbollah did in Lebanon.

Instead, Hamas preferred to place the Palestinians in jeogpardy of suffering heavy casualties - all with the hope of winning world public opinion, and to place political pressures onto Israel.

Force can only result in more force being applied, and as seen - it has led to a constant spiral into the depths of evil ingenuity.

Why should Hamas sabotage the efforts of the West Bank supporters of their President Abbas - when their community was on the verge of making progress in the peace negotiations with Israel - so as to achieve a peaceful two state existence ?

Atobe SG

Go and ask any jew if their father Abraham was born in the land now called Israel. Any jewish rabbi will tell you no, their ancestor came from Ur of the Chaldees, in Babylonia or present-day Iraq. The jewish ancestry has more in common with Sadam Hussein than the Hittites, Jebusites and other tribes that inhabit the land on either side of the Jordon River. If present day palestinians should be sent to Saudi Arabia and Jordan, then perhaps the Israelis should be returned to where they originated in Iraq.

Who are the Jews ? Is Abraham - the Biblical acclaimed Father of the Jews and the Arabs - a Jew ?

Is there any worth in bringing up anthropology in this communal wars between the Jews and the Arab communities ?

Throughout the ages, wars have been fought between communities over land, and it continues to be so with racial or communal overtones - that is made worst by religions.

googoomuck SG

Jarhum, Jerusalem was never mentioned in the quran. It's not holy to the Arabs.

The conquering Arabs are very fond of building mosques over destroyed holy sites of other faiths.

xtreyier SG

Wars is a hyprocrisy of a few superpowers creation, on one hand, they call for cease fire and peaceful negotiation, on the other hand, they supplied the arms

Thank you angel, for your thoughtful post.

I pride myself as being a humanitarian, and had called for both sides to ceasefire, so that the palestinians and jews may breathe easier.

In my pride, i had failed to realized that a ceasefire would only prolong the eventual death of more jews and palestinians, because both sides will only replenish their arsenals and refresh their troops and re-organise.

Once ready, the killings will only resume.

Israel had shown itself capable of restrain, refraining from attacking while suffering for months of missile oppresion and deaths. It will restrain again, so long as Hamas, the terrorists organisation stops its deadly oppression.

If Israel doesnt, I will be on the forefront to condemn it.

But more critically, Hamas must either disband or tear up its constitution to murder every living jew and infidel. It's an abomination to humanity in this day and age.

The palestinians had suffered much, and will only continue to suffer more if Hamas does not gives up its ideology. The palestininans deserve a better life, they are humans just like the rest of us.

There had been huge amount of funds donated to them, by US and the UN organistions since the late 60s till today. But unfortunately, such funds were used to buy killing materials instead of uplifting the palestinians. It must stop.

Only you moderate muslims can help now. I am sure there will be many others whom are non-muslims who will stand beside you to help the palestinians.

We singaporeans are not superhumans. We too were kicked out to a lemon but we made lemonade out of this piece of rock called Singapore, thru intelligence and hardwork, fed our nation and made it wealthy.

So too can our fellow humans of the palestinain citizenship.

We would welcome the peaceful moderate ones to share from us on how to increase intelligence and wealth and obtain a decent life for all instead of war, which Arafat denied them during the 70s when UN tried to provide education and better living conditions, but was rejected and kick out of the refugee camps or threatened, because Arafat needed killers to wipe out the jews.

Arafat prefered to keep the population stupid, just as Hamas intends today, to feed their militant machine going.

The Almighty intended us humans to have intelligence, which is why we were given brains to process information, know right from wrong. Advance Mathematics and science came from Arabs during the golden years of the good prophet Muhammed's earlier benevolent dynastic rule.

Palestinians can too, evolve back to those days of progress and further elevate the arab world in peace and intelligence, not only for muslims, but for humanity and know the Almighty better.

The world is big enough and have much resources to be shared. For example, even if Hamas kill everyone of us whom are not muslims but infidels, according to their misinterpretation, it would leave only 1.5million palestinians in the world.

How much can 1.5million palestinians feed on the billions of apples that can be harvested in the world? How much would it have to be left rotten?

The good Prophet Mohammend had never intended to kill the rest of the world or he would have divine intervention to do so during his reign.

But who is Osama and Hamas, these animals, believed and supported by the faithful, to do something which the good prophet had never intended to do? How dare and who are they but fallible mortals to presume the Almighty's Will?

Thus, moderate muslims must stand up and challenge the legitimacy and moral authority of these murderous Hamas and other false prophets who are killing the palestinians as well as humanity.

This is the only way to help palestinians now and uplift their lives thru peace, this i plead on bended knees. Fatalistic belief in predictions of doom can be averted if we act now.

skythewood SG

skywood,

you are bringing superficial elements into this discussion to substantiate unjustified facts contrary to actual happenings of the war. I quote this:

From The Telegraph:

Two United Nations contractors were killed by an Israeli tank shell today during an official suspension of hostilities designed to allow relief operations in the besieged Gaza Strip.

If I were to utilize your brand of argument, your perspective infers that it was the military elite who perpetuated the orders for the killings of U.N contractors.

Reports were did not alleged Hamas threw the first punch following the 3 hour truce, however reports that THE IDF resumed air strikes after the end of the ceasefire.

Thus your accusation that Hamas may have fired during the ceasefire is utterly false. This is a stark reflection of your prejudice. But do not stoop too low by fabricating facts which are proven otherwise.

"Will the militants stay away from mosque, schools and hospitals in their effort to attack the Isrealis? definitely not"

how do you know Hamas are based in schools, mosques and hospitals? Many of the Israeli accusations have not been substantiated. On the other hand, Israeli attacks on civilian infrastructure have been justified by independent sources that no Hamas fighters were present. Notably the U.N school.

" And the justified attack LOOK like atrocities to the reporters because the militants are the one who dies."

Your sentence is grossly incomprehensible. I do not see your intended point here.

I am appalled that a fellow Singapore justifies attacks on innocent civilians. In accordance to the Geneva Convention, no attacks on civilians are justified. You seem to be an ardent supporter of terrorism.

Not only Hamas combatants die by Israeli aggression as many, if not more, innocent children, women and civilians are killed as well.

"Military discipline. LEARN."

You are the pot calling the kettle black. You seem to severely lack knowledge and much skill at stringing coherent points across. However, your assertation that the Israeli soldiers obey orders via the chain of command NOT to attack is proven false. They did attack innocent civilians. Thus it can be deduced that either it was the military elites of the Israeli terrorist army who commanded the attack or there was a severe breakdown in the dissemination of orders, meaning that military discipline of the Israelis was severely lacking.

"Mentioning that peace groups advocate for peace is stupid."

My response: "My emphasis was on the fact that those peace organizations are Jewish and Israeli but they condemn the aggressions of their army."

You must be blind or rather, blinded by your overzealous support of the Israeli war crimes. Never did I mention peace groups advocate peace. That is stating the obvious. I wonder the level of common sense you possess. Currently, judging from your accounts, it appears to be pretty low.

Mentioning that peace groups advocate for peace is moronic. Get that idea right. even if they are aliens or Israeli or Palestinians, of course peace group advocate peace. what a stupid, stupid point to bring up. and to keep defending that? what a stupid stupid thing to do.

Military Discipline holds. LEARN. If Israeli want to attack civilian, there will be no one left to report it. You doubt that? Proven that Israel attack civilian unprovoked? NOT.

YOU doubt Hamas will stay in the mosque and hospital and school and attack Israel from there? The guys who lob rockets into Israel and expect nothing to happen? Use your COMMON SENSE.

mancha SG

People will be selective. Some blatantly selective.

When someone else's report or article expresses opinion that is in line their sentiments, it will be touted as authoritative statements that support their views. Any report or article that is critical of their views will be touted as foreign trash.

When the omniscience [archangel] ask you "What do you think of the Isreal/Palestine conflict?" The subject is not important, as the emphasis is on the "you".

Are you going to produce UN reports, and other peoples' opinion?

Read them, digest them, and please come up with your own opinion and assessment.

You are not the product of one infusion of information, but the sum total of all the information gathered through the years. Therefore it is biasness on your part that make you select information agreeable to you, and label information otherwise as that of staple foreign lies.

***

My Islamophobia is garnered through the years of observation of Muslim neighbours, friends, colleagues, countries, governments and news reports. And not through staple American reports. Individually I have no quarrel with Muslims, but collectively I do not trust the "jemmiah islamiah". They are evil, like the communist of the Stalin, Mao era. The grassroots are the sheeps, it is the higher hierachy that are wolf in sheep clothings. Everywhere, when a Muslim community is small, they behave peacefully, but when they grow, they become belligerent, discriminatory, and oppressive and imperialistic contrary to the tenets promised in their theology. Their defence is justification, divine justification. Never once acknowledging that it is their yokel mentality that is taken advantage of by those who have political agenda through religion. Belief, as that is what relligion actually is, is a strong motivational force.

Can there be peace between Isreal and Palestine? My opinion is no. Because the of the hijacked religion of the majority of the Palestinian people. Why is the religion of peace unable to procure peace in the Middle East? Simple, I see it is because there is great avenue for political hatred in the faith. This explosive force is acknowledged by the political leaders of our country, and of those around us.

My personal opinion expressed here could invite enforcement actions, therefore the qualification "my personal opinion". And believe me, I am holding back.

oxford mushroom SG

Should we be constantly amazed by the empty intellect of one that is supposed to have had the benefit of passing through the halls of Oxford ?

It was through superior intellect, creativity, resourcefulness, and discipline in the rank and file of the Israeli population that gave them victory in 1967.

Instead, Hamas preferred to place the Palestinians in jeogpardy of suffering heavy casualties - all with the hope of winning world public opinion, and to place political pressures onto Israel.

Force can only result in more force being applied, and as seen - it has led to a constant spiral into the depths of evil ingenuity.

Well, we should certainly not be surprised by the imbecilic posting of the ever reliably daft atobe.

What need does Israel have to resort to suicide bombers and rockets made from tin cans when the americans have supplied them with F16 jets and laser guided bombs (despite which, they still manage to bomb a UN school when they have been given the GPS coordinates)? The palestinians have every right to wage war against Israel to recover their stolen land. The problem is: the combatants are not evenly matched. Israel has modern weapons, the palestinians have only martyrs.

This is a zero sum game and might is right. It will only end when Israel exterminates the entire palestinian population or when the palestinians drive the Israelis to the sea, neither of which is likely to happen soon.

The palestinians should simply bide their time and not invite conflict until they have the upper hand. In a few decades there will be more arabs than jews in that part of the world. There is a limit to how many arabs an Israeli soldier can shoot down before being overwhlemed himself.

frakfrakfrak SG

Israel has lost the shield of moral righteousness. Its massacre of civilians, its blatant attacks on UN refugee shelters, schools, aid workers, reporters, children, women, elderly, mosques and churches all show that Israel is a rogue state. Once Israel loses all pretensions of humanity then humanity will lose all mercy for the Zionists. Nuclear technology is being proliferated within the Islamic world. The day the Zionists achieve what they think will be total victory, will be the day when the Sword of Damocles shall fall. The logic is very clear and the path to peace is open but the Zionists choose the fate of wild beasts.

googoomuck SG

Well, we should certainly not be surprised by the imbecilic posting of the ever reliably daft atobe.

The land conquered by Arabs in AD 637 do not remain theirs forever. The Jews are able to reclaim it today.

oxford mushroom SG

The land conquered by Arabs in AD 637 do not remain theirs forever. The Jews are able to reclaim it today.

True....it's not yours unless you can defend it. And the palestinians will try to regain their land by rockets and suicide bombings. If Menachem Begin can become prime minister by bombing the King David hotel, Khaled Meshaal may well be president by sending rockets into Israeli schools.

If they fail, they are terrorists. If they eventually succeed, they are freedom fighters. Might is right!

maurizio13 SG

Well, we should certainly not be surprised by the imbecilic posting of the ever reliably daft atobe.

Tsk tsk.....

Resorting to insults because you loss the discussion.

It's not the first time you lost, you should have gotten used to it by now.

PS: I am still trying my best to forget your logic of "when interest rates rise, bond prices rise in tandem".

freedomclub SG

Will it not be more strategically intelligent for Hamas to wage a political war then a military war ?

Presumbaly you got your information from Osama ?

Unfortunately, Hamas do not reciprocate in similar ways by giving early notice as to where and when the rockets will land onto Europe.

If someone inform the residents that an attack will occur in District 10, surely the residents there will move out and stay in some other adjacent Districts.

How did the oil and gas suddenly appear in the headlines - when decades have slipped by without a squeak of its existence ?

Immediately after the 6-Day war, the oil rich Arab World had formed an oil cartel, and practically held the world hostage to their agenda to move support away from Israel.

It is a known fact that Israel depend on imported oil, and if there is oil in the Gaza - do you think that it will not be detected by the Israelis ?

Will it not be more strategically intelligent for Hamas to wage a political war then a military war ?

Which they already have, and won in 2006. In the end, might is right in the world, regardless of moral integrity.

Presumbaly you got your information from Osama ?

I didnt expect you to resort to the kind of ad hominem attacks that xtreyier indulges. You have not proved anything in the statement except the fact that you refuse to look at information that is contrary to your preconceptions.

Then why would they bother giving warnings if it could aid Hamas? Even if they give warnings, the rampant bombing of the Gaza Strip, where the Palestinians are prevented from living is bound to result in heavy casualties because of superior Israeli firepower (ie via the shockwaves and structural damage to buildings). The casualties speak for themselves:

Scoreboard for Gaza invasion:

Palestinians dead: 780+

Palestinians injured: 3100+

Israeli deaths: 6 soldiers (4 by friendly fire) and 4 civilians

Besides, there have already been instances where Israel had deliberately bombed civilian homes:

"The Israeli military may have committed war crimes in Gaza, the UN's most senior human rights official said tonight, as Israeli troops pressed on with their increasingly deadly offensive in defiance of a UN security council resolution demanding a ceasefire.

Navi Pillay, the UN high commissioner for human rights, singled out the killing this week of up to 30 Palestinians in Zeitoun, south-east of Gaza City, when Israel shelled a house where its troops had told about 110 civilians to take shelter.

Pillay, a former international criminal court judge from South Africa, told the BBC the incident "appears to have all the elements of war crimes". She called for "credible, independent and transparent" investigations into possible violations of humanitarian law.

....

More than 750 Palestinians have died since the start of the Israeli military operation. More than half of Gaza's population are children, and the Palestinian ministry of health said about 42% of the casualties have been children.

Unicef said at least 100 children and minors were killed in the first 10 days of fighting. The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights, which posts staff at hospitals to track casualties, put this number at more than 160."

- UN levels war crimes warning at Israel- http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun

Unfortunately Israel has blocked off the foreign media from entering Gaza even though a major humanitarian crisis is precipitating in Gaza. I dont think it takes a lot of effort to figure who has the upper hand in the media war.

How did the oil and gas suddenly appear in the headlines - when decades have slipped by without a squeak of its existence ?

Decades? I already quoted an article to say it was discovered in 2000 and how the rights to the oil field were being negotiated between the Israeli government, the PA and British oil firms. However, since the ruin of the PA, the oil and natural gas was supposed to fall under the ownership of Hamas. Naturally, Israel could not allow that and hence, this MIGHT be one of the reason why Israel has decided to invade Gaza, though they are plenty others.

Atobe SG

Well, we should certainly not be surprised by the imbecilic posting of the ever reliably daft atobe.

Why would anyone be surprised that you can be so affected by one whom you claim to be an imbecile and daft ?

It certainly shows the shallowness that have constantly been observed from the many posts that you have been exposed for the shallow depths in political thinking and original thoughts.

Stolen land ?

If everyone claim their land to be stolen - as did Malaysia with Singapore over the Pedra Branca issue, and China with Japan over the Diao Yue Tai Island, and Japan with Russia over the Kuril Island chain - we all should be concerned that an Oxford trained mind will sanction the indiscriminate use of rockets to wage a war of terror to reclaim what is being disputed.

Will Singaporeans have any legitimacy to be in Singapore, if the Johor Sultanate decide to turn back the clock of history and claim that the Singapore Island was not sold to the British but was on a term lease that became obscured by poor interpretation and translation of languages ?

Yes, Israel may have been supplied sophisticated weapons by the USA, and possess its own high tech weapon systems - and these were used for precision attacks against legitimate Hamas rocket and mortar firing positions that were purposefully located near or in the midst of dense Palestinian residential areas.

Compared to the mass bombing of Berlin, London, Stalingrad, Nanking, and Tokyo - the Gaza civilian casualties of 800+ remains low by comparison - and prove that the Israeli targetting efforts with the precision weapon systems were not indiscriminate.

The fact that Israel was able to keep its own civilian casualties low, compared to the high number of Palestinian civilian casualties - will expose the wanton disregard of the Hamas leadership towards any kind of preparation to protect their own Palestinian civilians BEFORE launching an all out rocket and motar attack against Israeli civilian population centers.

The shallowness of your tertiary educated mind is even more shocking by the mindless statement that - "The palestinians should simply bide their time and not invite conflict until they have the upper hand. In a few decades there will be more arabs than jews in that part of the world. There is a limit to how many arabs an Israeli soldier can shoot down before being overwhlemed himself. "

There is the larger group of Palestinians living on the West Bank that is led by the elected President Abbas, who is supported by the West Bank Palestinians to make a peace settlement that will allow the Two State solution to become a reality.

It remains Hamas objective to keep the conflict alive - in part to serve Iranian goals and to receive a continuous flow of funds to allow for the survival of the Hamas Party.

If Hamas should become a spent force and be neutralised by the current Israeli efforts, the region may succeed in achieving a win-win situation of Two Separate State living in support of one another.

Afterall, the Palestinians depend on employment within Israel, and the state of Israel depend on the Palestinians for low cost labor.

Can this be a zero sum game ?

Only in the shallow and mindless thinking of those who believe the halls of Oxford will qualify them to comment with authority on any aspect of Life's events.

Unfortunately, the vast halls of Oxford can only echo the sound of those more willing to challenge the status quo with original thinking, and the daring to move out of the cycle to seek new ways to solve old solutions - instead of being caught in the old cycles of tried and tested methods that are out-of-date.

Are we not familiar with your dogmatic thinking even on Singapore issues that find you attempting to bask in the white light fixed by others ?

Atobe SG

If they fail, they are terrorists. If they eventually succeed, they are freedom fighters. Might is right!

If it is "True....it's not yours unless you can defend it." - why spite the Israelis for having been able to defend what they have claimed rightfully to be theirs ?

The Israeli fight for existence during the British Colonial Rule of the Palestine Region was in a different period of time, when the fight for nationhood justify any means.

Even the American Colonists were treated - by the English Government - as rebels and terrorists by their constant ambushes and skirmishes that injured and killed many soldiers sent from England to reclaim their colonies in America.

Since the end of WW-2, when the Jews were resettled into the Palestine Region that was governed by the British Colonial Office, at least 60 years have transpired since the creation of the State of Israel - which is recognised by the United Nations.

The State of Israel may not have been recognised by the other Middle-eastern countries then, it certainly has seen more UN members accepting the State of Israel.

If you can condone the Palestinian methods to attack the civilians of a sovereign state - to reclaim what they believe to be rightfully theirs, are you not similarly condoning the opening of a pandora's box in the multitude of rebel organisation fighting for their own independent homeland across the globe ?

This is shocking coming from one that sees others as daft and imbecilic.

Should we not be concern that characters - who will unabashedly advertise their claims to be from prestigeous institutions of higher learning - can have such low intellect resting in a highly conceited head, and possibly holding some positions that affect the lives of countless others ?

We all should pray that God will have the immense wisdom to forbid the passing of such genes to the next existence.

Atobe SG

Will it not be more strategically intelligent for Hamas to wage a political war then a military war ?

Which they already have, and won in 2006. In the end, might is right in the world, regardless of moral integrity.

What did they win in 2006 ?

Did they win a political war or even a military one over Israel ?

Instead, all they did was to split the Palestinian Community into two - and weakening the Palestinian causes by their divisive acts that saw their illegally usurping the authority from the legitimately elected Palestinian Government of President Abbas.

All that the Palestinian had achieved by remaining in the Hamas controlled Gaza Strip was to make themselves into a pariah state that is ignored even by the other Arab States of Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Morroco, Iraq, and all other World Communities that support the Arab cause.

What victory are you dreaming about that occurred in 2006 ?

Presumbaly you got your information from Osama ?

For one who claim others for refusing to look at information that is contrary to pre-conceptions - you seem to be indulging in double standards that begin with you depending on propaganda for your facts.

Is it not obvious from your circular arguments based on flawed logic thinking - that you are fixated to the Hamas cause and with you being affected by the Palestinian casualties more then by the Principles of the Issues themselves ?

Then why would they bother giving warnings if it could aid Hamas?

Surely, we can understand your position in not see the obvious, as we can see that you are more indulgent in Hamas agenda despite your claims to neutrality.

Even if Hamas should take heed of the advance warning made by Israel, it will already serve Israeli objectives in neutralising Hamas positions - by emptying Hamas personnels and destroying the infrastructure.

Even if they give warnings, the rampant bombing of the Gaza Strip, where the Palestinians are prevented from living is bound to result in heavy casualties because of superior Israeli firepower (ie via the shockwaves and structural damage to buildings). The casualties speak for themselves:

Scoreboard for Gaza invasion:

Palestinians dead: 780+

Palestinians injured: 3100+

Israeli deaths: 6 soldiers (4 by friendly fire) and 4 civilians

Besides, there have already been instances where Israel had deliberately bombed civilian homes:

The scoreboard surely shows the unpreparedness of the Hamas leadership to take advance construction of civilian bomb shelters, stocking of food, water and energy, and training for their civilians to respond to warning systems.

The scoreboard shows the irresponsibility of the Hamas leadership to declare that rocket attacks will resume at the end of the last negotiated truce period, even when throughout the truce period there were no efforts to prepare the Palestinians for this expected outcome.

Did Israel fire the first salvo immediately after the end of the Truce on the last day of November 2008 ?

Even then Israel had only responded to the rocket and motar attacks by returning fire to the points of origins of the rocket and motar firing spots, and these were located intentionally by the Hamas leadership in the middle of dense Palestinian living areas.

It is easy to shout "War Crimes" - but wild rhetoric with fiery sights then to blind the abilities to see facts on the ground.

If War Crimes are to be instituted, the Hamas leadership will be the first to be dragged to stand trial - firstly for the illegitimate overthrow of an elected Palestinian Government in the Gaza Strip; secondly for the killing and imprisonment of duly elected officials of the Palestinian Government for the Gaza Strip under President Abbas; and third for the deliberate firing of rockets and motar attacks into Israeli civilian residential areas, schools, and public areas; and fourth for the contravening of the Geneva Codes of War by using clearly designated neutral faclities for the storage of weapons, ammunition and training of personnels that included civilian homes, hospitals, religious sites, schools and others.

....

- UN levels war crimes warning at Israel- http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun

My heart bleeds for the innocent lives loss, but it stops bleeding for the hypocritical cries of those who support Hamas deliberate and unprovoked acts of war on the innocent lives of others.

Israel do not necessary need to prove that "might is right" - and is clearly resorting to the Middle-eastern tradition upheld by Islam's conservativism and fundamentalist religious practises in the "Principle of an Eye for an Eye".

Clearly those outside of the Middle-eastern region do not understand nor appreciate nor accept such value systems - does that make anyone in the UN qualified to pass judgment as to what constitute a War Crime ?

It will make you better off as a Singapore to be less involved due to your lop sided understanding of Human Rights that is colored by a lop sided Singapore humanities and value system.

Tell me that you are not one from the same religion of these Palestinians - and perhaps I can begin to understand in your position revealed from your clearly show of skewed neutrality ?

If as an outsider from that region of war, you can "figure who has the upper hand in the media war " - it already shows that you are out-of-touch with the events on the ground with your biased comments.

Western commentators are more resourceful then your own narrow assumptions, as others who are more knowledgeable of the events are already making shocking statements of their own that ‘Israel losing the media war’

So much for your expert views of the reality on the ground.

How did the oil and gas suddenly appear in the headlines - when decades have slipped by without a squeak of its existence ?

If the gas and oil exist, why will Hamas allow themselves to be used as Iranian pawns to push Iranian agenda first, and put their own Palestinian future on the back burner ?

After illegally usurping the authority over the Gaza Strip from the legitimately elected government of President Abbas, why did the Hamas leadership indulge themselves in the wasteful acts of aggressions towards Israel - instead of developing their strengths and stabilising their own future by exploiting the oil and gas fields lying in the Gaza ?

With the oil and gas fields lying in abundance in the Gaza Strip - as you have claimed - Hamas would have won the long term strategic political battle over President Abbas PLA.

Clearly the publicity made about Israel's intention to grab the Gaza Strip is nothing more then another speculative propaganda developed by a bankrupt mind that depend on wild imagined events.

When Israel withdraws from the Gaza Strip after completing its various missions to discover and destroy all of Hama's abilities to launch rockets and motars from the Gaza Strip - the speculators will disingeneously develop another propaganda.

Ivixulus SG

Its sad to see for all of your intelligence , none of you have wisdom.
No wonder Singapore is having a hard time aquiring top quality leaders.

Firstly of all, who in this world, wheather justified or not has the right to take away one's life for their own gain?
Israel has the right to oppress...
Hamas has the right to attack....
Ah! Shut Up!

If u want to make a difference and show your righteousness, stop bit*ching about history, and instead contribute or at least do something to help aid the victims.
bit*ching about to see whose egos gets tarnish would not improve the world. Why do u need to dig up bones when you dont really doing anything?

If u cant help, stop your ranting. No one cares who's right or wrong- on the Gaza plane or among yourselves. People like me just want the victims and innocent to stop dying.

Haha.. and btw i find it amusing of those who support Israel here in Singapore. I mean are u related to jews? or have family who is jewish? what is it in for you?
Your neighbours are muslims is it because of that you can relate to what the israelis are facing?

You know who you are.

Atobe SG

Its sad to see for all of your intelligence , none of you have wisdom.
No wonder Singapore is having a hard time aquiring top quality leaders.

If u cant help, stop your ranting. No one cares who's right or wrong- on the Gaza plane or among yourselves. People like me just want the victims and innocent to stop dying.

You know who you are.

For one who complain about bitching and ranting, are you not being hypocritical with your own bitching ?

What can you possibly have done to help with the situation with your added piece ?

If you cannot appreciate what Israel has done for Singapore during the first few months of Singapore's dangerous birth - as a result of the foolish ambitions of our own political leaders - can we expect you to know what the historical ties Singapore has with Israel ?

Why should you instinctively become so defensive in relating the proximity of muslims being Singapore's neighbors - as reasons for the support given to Israel ?

Are you not playing to the stereo-type thinking of Muslims being the oppressed, when none exist ?

Do we need to speculate who are the supporters of Hamas ?

googoomuck SG

Its sad to see for all of your intelligence , none of you have wisdom.
No wonder Singapore is having a hard time aquiring top quality leaders.

If u cant help, stop your ranting. No one cares who's right or wrong- on the Gaza plane or among yourselves. People like me just want the victims and innocent to stop dying.

You know who you are.

Are you related to Arabs? Moron!

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