Gays : To all Singapore Religious Leaders

last SG · 2007-11-06T15:52:04+00:00

Yes, good or bad sometimes depend on the situations.But there are obective standards for an act too. Drinking bear can be considered good because the drink...

Herzog_Zwei SG

Who says sexual orientation cannot be changed? The real question is why would a person want to do that?

Phaze SG

That's two separate issues.

There is no evidence that sexual orientation can be changed. Not without causing great psychological harm anyway.

I do agree that even if sexual orientation can be changed, why would a person want to change his sexual orientation?

Let's say you like eating asparagus. Is it possible for you to change your liking for asparagus? Perhaps. But why would you want to do that?

Phaze SG

You prove that stupid really is smart! Very Happy

happieman SG

r u straight ? does anyone bother you on that ?

then why you bother the gays want to be gays .. they din ask you to be gay ..

chay .. who bothers... zzzzzz

happieman SG

don argue .. debate with sense !

Herzog_Zwei SG

Who's concern about psychological welfare? Twisted Evil
I said it's possible and nothing about moral qualms about doing it.

PRP SG

I state my motive first.I debate here for fun.So i speak honestly.

Ppl who oppose to repealing 377a are not intolerant of geys' lifestyle.The law has been there for a long time and there was a purpose for enacting the law.Anal sex is an unnatural sex.The geys have higher percentage of ppl infected with AIDS.These 2 reasons show that anal sex is wrong & bad.

If the homo supporters can convince us that homo is right & good,then of course anal sex shouldn't be a crime.But geys say homo is no right or wrong.I say no such thing.If geys can't show homo is good & right. many ppl still think that it is wrong & inmoral.

dumbdumb! SG

i'm only thinking about the kids, imagine they adopt a boy, then he grew up thinking he was gay and it was normal. but actually he's straight.

it might be just my ignorance la, but that's still my biggest concern.

i don't approve of the gay lifestyle, but i don't hate them. whatever they do behind closed doors is their own business and i'm fine with it. and as long as they don't hit on me la of course.

i've got gay friends, actually only 1, from my NS days.

i really don't see an issue. i mean, p0rn is also illegal wat, but many people still have access to it, and the govt don't actively detect the internet to see who's accessing what just to arrest and prosecute people. and p0rn users are fine with it, they're not staging protests to protect their right to accessing p0rn.

i feel that gays are just acting on principle, even though its illegal, they're not being prevented from getting it on with one another, so long nobody complains la (stompers), are their lifestyle really being restricted? are they being herded like cattles or have GPS trackers attached to them to monitor them make sure they don't have gay gatherings for more than 30 mins at a time so that nothing drastic happens? no what, they still do whatever they do behind closed doors (I know, because a gay once told me the going ons on his birthday party, it was very awkward the next 15 mins.)

they're protesting just because they want to force everyone to agree with them that being gay isn't wrong, (biologically or morally), and that's really asking for too much.

its really the same la, i think gays should just get on with their business and stop promoting what the majority feels its morally wrong.

what's next? people with bestiality issues wanting the rights to screw their pet dogs?

Confused

Herzog_Zwei SG

I am stating the technology is there but the question is now moral as in why must it be done?

PRP SG

Geys should heed the good advice (msg above)of Dumbdumb!

dumbdumb! SG

i'm just an ignorant person, and its just my humble opinion la. i hope it isn't a hateful opinion though

rooki SG

It's not up to the homosexuals to prove why homosexuality is right, it's up to the homophobics to prove why it is wrong. Stop shifting the burden of proof.

And no, a 3000-year book of fables does not and can never count.

Seriously, pandering to right-wing religious nutjobs...I can feel I'm almost in the American Deep South. How long more to a (multireligious) theocracy?

Phaze SG

Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
i'm only thinking about the kids, imagine they adopt a boy, then he grew up thinking he was gay and it was normal. but actually he's straight.

it might be just my ignorance la, but that's still my biggest concern.

Don't use ignorance as an excuse. You have a chance to be enlightened.

Straight people, by definition, will never find homosexuality normal. But they can find it acceptable. Do you think a straight person will turn gay because he thinks it's okay for other people to have homosexual sex? I would venture to say no. I'm straight and I think being gay is not normal, but I'm totally okay with other people doing it and I have absolutely no desire to participate in homosexual activity. Also, my girlfriend would kill me for cheating on her.

Anyway, who's to say that everyone has to be normal? What's next? Making long hair illegal? Banning people who like to sleep naked or people who prefer to sleep in pajamas (whatever is considered normal)? Maybe it should be illegal for men to pee sitting down.

what's next? people with bestiality issues wanting the rights to screw their pet dogs?

The issue here (for the 13517871th time) is consent. Sex with children is illegal because they are below the age of consent. We don't know when exactly children are able to give consent, so we arbitrarily assign an age of 16 as the age of consent. Some children are mature enough to give consent as young as 13, some will never be mature enough (Britney Spears). However, we hope that 16 is a good compromise.

Now if you have a dog who can say, "hey baby, I want you to screw me in the ass. Hard." Please let me know.

Phaze SG

And why aren't you guys campaigning to re-establish the laws making oral and anal sex illegal?

And what's the normal position for sex? Should doggie style be illegal? Or Missionary? And probably all of the positions in the Kama Sutra save one?

I guess it's also not normal for people to defecate while sitting. Squat toilets are normal and all sit-down toilets should be illegal.

dumbdumb! SG

then u have a mexican stand off. if you don't respect their beliefs, why should they respect yours? Smile

it goes both ways, you can't demand others to believe otherwise of what they believe, you can try to enlighten them, but you can never force them.

so if the gays want their rights, they will have to convince the public. they can't demand everyone to conform to their beliefs.

this goes both ways also, if the law originally allow gays to legally proclaim their lifestyle and have sex legally (it sounds dumb la, cause they are already hving sex, legal or illegally, like the p0rn issue)

the religious rights will have to convince the public why it should not be accepted, and not demand everyone to conform to their believes just because.

dumbdumb! SG

well, i'll believe you when you are raised in a homosexual environment with no heterosexual exposure, and still turn out normal without any inclination of homosexual desires.

me, for one, can never agree with their lifestyle, nor accept it, but i don't go on a witchhunt and i'm fine with them doing whatever they wanna do behind closed doors.

i repeat.. its just like p0rn, its illegal, but if you're doing whatever you're doing privately, it doesn't really affect your life because nobody is actively monitoring you because its a by-right, by-left issue. (by right, its illegal, but everyone close one eye)

gays are acting on principle.

are they being hunted down and killed, are they being tortured? are they hiding underground or fearing for their lives like the religious ppl in china because of their lifestyle?

i'll start standing for them if these start happening

but they're not. they still go on with life per normal, they have jobs, they party, they have sex, they have relationships. have anyone being arrested so far for that?

even by declaring themselves gay publicly, everyone knows that they probably had sex etc, but nobody is arresting them still wat. so what are they complaining about?

what they want is everyone to just change their beliefs, and that's threading over the line. they're not asking for education of the public, so that the public will understand the gay lifestyle more.

they're demanding that everyone agree that being gay is right. which is too much to ask for really.

Phaze SG

Is principle not important? Why did we end the practice of slavery? Should we have kept the practice of slavery and just established laws that you can't beat your slave too hard?

By the way, religious persecution is really a myth. The religious repeat it to themselves so often that they believe it. Throughout history, it has been the religious who are the persecutors. The greatest persecution of religion is done by other religious people.

By the way, saying that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality is not a belief. It's a fact. Saying someone is homosexual is like saying the sky is blue. If the bible said that blue skies are evil, would you curse the sky?

Give me a single, non-religious reason why homosexuality should be considered ethically wrong.

dumbdumb! SG

i updated my previous post.

dumbdumb! SG

lol, then you're the ignorant one. the religious persecution in china is very real. now its so much better, but a few years back, things are really the pits. even usa commented on it.

i refer back to the p0rn issue. there's nothing physically wrong with p0rn, just morally. but everyone's watching it, and they're fine with it. they could act on principle and demand that p0rn be legalized in singapore, just like usa. but nobody does it, because their lives are not affected.

i just think the whole issue is really boh liao. are the gay lifestyle affected by the law? from what i see and hear from my gay friends, they're not affected at all.

the law's just there la, but there's no action taken so far against gays. so i really don't know what they are making noise about.

and as for your comment:

By the way, saying that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality is not a belief. It's a fact. Saying someone is homosexual is like saying the sky is blue. If the bible said that blue skies are evil, would you curse the sky?

its a fact for you, but its not a fact for everyone. so you cannot just demand for everyone to follow your beliefs just because you think its right.

that's kinda like censorship. if i belief that the gay lifestyle is wrong, how can you demand that i lie through my teeth to say that gay is right?

stupidissmart SG

I state my motive first.I debate here for fun.So i speak honestly.

Why is debating for fun=honest ? I think trying to be a flamebait is more fun and tat is wat u r doing

Ppl who oppose to repealing 377a are not intolerant of geys' lifestyle.The law has been there for a long time and there was a purpose for enacting the law.Anal sex is an unnatural sex.The geys have higher percentage of ppl infected with AIDS.These 2 reasons show that anal sex is wrong & bad.

People who donate blood get AIDs as well. So blood donation is bad ? People who r straight have AIDs too, then people should have not sex as well. The policemen here last time wear short pants for a long time. So they should not change to long pants ?

If the homo supporters can convince us that homo is right & good,then of course anal sex shouldn't be a crime.But geys say homo is no right or wrong.I say no such thing.If geys can't show homo is good & right. many ppl still think that it is wrong & inmoral.

U think it is wrong and immoral, it is your own business. U just have to mind your own business. If u ask me, the sins of homo is only the impossibility of reproduction and tat is their business. From tis aspect it is as sinful as fathers or sisters sworning a life of calibracy. Those who refuse to have children r equally guilty. Monks r no exception

i'm only thinking about the kids, imagine they adopt a boy, then he grew up thinking he was gay and it was normal. but actually he's straight.

I am also thinking about tis kid, who can go out and have lot of children and have a wonderful family life, but end up being a Priest in a catholic church because he is convinced by another catholic father. Does tat means being a father = bad life ? Does being gay = bad life ? He is normal or gay, as long as he is happy it is his choice isn't it Rolling Eyes

they're protesting just because they want to force everyone to agree with them that being gay isn't wrong, (biologically or morally), and that's really asking for too much.

Wat is wrong with being gay ? Rolling Eyes Specifically tell me wat is the wrong thing he did ?

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