All out to defame our governement

last SG · 2007-06-07T10:34:23+00:00

Not in biomed business, but believe such hubs exist in many places besides Australia and Singapore. not interested in disputing what the australians have est...

Gazelle SG

Originally posted by snow leopard:

8.) Government should not outsource project to overseas companies even if it is better value for money.

SL : govt should outsource itself, since its menial jobs (including writing forums during office hours) can be done at a fraction of the millions of dollars it now costs us.
G : You mean Singapore should be run by another country?
SL : no, i mean singapore should be run by singaporeans who genuinely have singaporeans at heart and not hanker over million dollar salaries doing menial jobs like writing forums during office hours.
G : This has no relationship to how the government handle its projects.
SL: all else being equal, i would prefer a govt that doesn't write forums during office hours.
G : Childish assumption

9) S-league foreign footballers are all highly educated individual

SL : nobody watches S-league
G : That not what we are asking and again you miss the point.
SL : so my answer "nobody watches S-league" points squarely to the irrelelvance of your point.
G: We have foreign footballers who are playing for S-League and have been offered citizenship because of their talent in sport. Hence do you think it is right to say that all FT are highly educated? Are you sure that nobody watches S-League? Are those people seating in the stadium ghost or something?
SL : show me where and who said that "S-league foreign footballers are all highly educated individual". you must have misrepresented someone else's words again. what are they compared to the many more glued in front of TVs watching EPL? and all those who watch S-league are more likely than not to watch EPL as well.
G : Go look up yourself and read what you posted, and dont behave like a spoilt brat where everything must be spoon-fed to you.

10) You need to be highly educated to be consider a talent.

SL : isn't that the govt's elitist policy for the last 40 years?
G : Are you sure?
SL: yes
G : Are you also saying that those badminton player from China who have become Singaporeans are highly educated?
SL: show me where and who wrote "You need to be highly educated to be consider a talent."
G : Childish.

11) Income gap = living standard

SL : income gap = widening living standards
G : You could be right, but thats not what soul_rage said
SL : soul rage said the exact same thing i said
G: Really, mind showing me where you get that from?
SL : mind showing me where you got "Income gap = living standard" first?
G : It is your job to proof me wrong not me.

12) Singapore government is pro rich people, not pro business

SL : it is pro rich people's business
G : is rich peoples business not business? Or are you commenting for the sake of commenting?
SL : rich people's business is rich people's business. why do you care?
G : Could you give us some example of rich peoples business?
SL: i can but i wonder if i should also propose a snow leopard's challenge and get someone to go under a skirt.
G : I would love to, but since you like to play childish game, I would like clarify a few things, and ie.

a) What is your definition of RICH,
b) Are you suggesting that Singapore government is pro rich peoples business ONLY?
c) Suppose if I can prove you wrong, would you kiss my hairy deer butt and call me daddy.

Gazelle SG

save that comment for later, because I am starting to have so much fun documenting down his childish reply which I strongly encourage you to read.

True facts? There are plenty, you just have to read with your eyes open and dont like your emotion cloud your mind.

maurizio13 SG

*shrugs*

Don't know what's his fascination with people kissing his butt.

I wonder how many forumers support Gazelle's logic.

Gazelle SG

Rock Star, not too long ago, you were so corky to question me about median income growth, and now you have conveniently forgotten about it. Why is that so? Is it because are incapable to discussion the topic that you were asking? Or is it because you are unable to proof me wrong? Or both?

just play your guitar and rock on, instead of coming here to be a fallen star.

Fingolfin_Noldor SG

Just ignore this thread.

Why accord that moron any attention that he wants? Ignore him.

If he wants to claim victory, by all means, not like we even care about his sorry existence.

Gazelle SG

just like why some people prefer to hide under the skirt and meow!!

Rock^Star SG

What is there to debate when you twist my words at will and your judgement, impeded?

I have nothing to prove and given any other day, I will still beat you.......for your desire to prove one wrong is greater than your hunger for the truth.

Gazelle SG

nah..that to me are just full of excuses.......here is wage report which consist of median income, please read and give us your comment.

http://www.mom.gov.sg/publish/etc/medialib/mom_library/mrsd/files.Par.37500.File.tmp/mrsd_2005ROW.pdf

PRP SG

Best not to side track

This topic is about "all out to defame our govt."Why don't u all stick to the topic and don't side track?If not, the scope becomes too wide.

The debate should go like this: Yes because......,no because .....

soul_rage SG

Originally posted by PRP:
[b]Best not to side track

This topic is about "all out to defame our govt."Why don't u all stick to the topic and don't side track?If not, the scope becomes too wide.

The debate should go like this: Yes because......,no because .....[/b]

no we are not out to defame our govt.

1st of all, the unhappiness is not against the govt, but is against the PAP party

2nd, if any complaints = we want to defame PAP, then I think our PAP and the pro-PAP camp is really petty.

3rd, if the PAP thinks that whatever they say is 100% correct, then I think they are really too arrogant and conceited. If they do not wish to hear any criticisms, then they cannot improve.

Gazelle SG

1) You can call yourself anti-PAP camp, but dont simply label others as pro-PAP just because they dont agree with your arguement

2) How do you draw a line between PAP and the government since those who runs the government also run PAP?

3) How can you say that you are not defaming the government when you are accusing the government of practising protestionism and setting policy that only benefits rich people.

The problem with the "anti-PAP camp" is that you people are arguing with too much emotion that along the way you are distorting facts unknowingly just to proof a point Since this is a public forum for discussing politics, it is important that forumers get their facts right because shooting or else you cant blame other of blaming you for defaming our government.

Jontst78 SG

Dear Gazelle, please do not label all who are pro-opposition and anti-PAP to be emotional and guilty of distorting facts.
Granted, there are the emotional ones, but then there are those who are calm and there are those who carry valid points across as well. Smile

soul_rage SG

1) You can't talk for other people. So you are in no position to comment this point. In no way did I say we are anti-PAPs also.

2) This is where you are so wrong. The Govt will NEVER be the PAP. The only reason why we are caught in this stupid situation is that the PAP is running the entire govt (almost), so people tend to say Govt = PAP. For instance, during elections, the PAP CANNOT use HDB upgrading as a carrot because that is taxpayers' money for upgrading. This belongs to the GOVT, NOT the PAP, so the party cannot use the taxpayer's money as their war chest. Every person who pays taxes are entitled to equal rights for upgrading.

3) Did I accuse? Please watch your words carefully. I am stating an opinion, everyone is entitled to their opinions, and its up to you to see with your heart whether my opinion makes sense or not. People who see with their hearts know where the govt is going towards. You, on the other hand, see only with your eyes.

The problem with you is that you tend to point fingers at others, when you are doing the EXACT same thing.
When you say we are emotional, aren't you emotional yourself?
You go about sprouting vulgarities at others, and you tell me you are not emotional? Answer this question on your vulgarities and abuse of other people. Don't avoid this accusation anymore (yes, I AM accusing you coz this is a FACT, YOU ABUSE others).

you want me to present facts of your abuse? There are many many pages in this forum that proves your guilt (since you like proof so much)

january SG

back again. but will not post too much.

to summarize some of the opposition stance, your perception is that

government power is to centralized among too few leaders and not enough power is given to citizens, middle level leaders, opposition leaders.

There is insufficient independent structures that check on the top leaders themselves.

The goverment uses media to its advantage

The goverment do not admit their mistakes

some of the opposition examples are countries in europe where the government do not have so much power like singapore and their lives are better and less stressful and their people are happier.

However, there are also countries where the government does not have too much power and the country is still in mess also.

Therefore, it does not mean taking some power away from top leaders will mean a more prosperous country.

US has congress that argues with george bush sometimes, but there are still US people complaining a range of issues everyday and think that life is not good in their countries. Problems are not solved just becaues opposition has more power than in case of singapore.

soul_rage SG

You did not answer my question on their pay.

You think they deserve such a large pay rise? And you think that there should not be any checks on such issues?

It has long been known that absolute power corrupts absolutely.

That is why there is the Holy Trinity (of the Parliament, the President, and the CJ).

Controls, checks, and balances is ALWAYS necessary. That is why NKF got screwed, when their checks and balances are not in place.

It is always necessary to have someone to review and someone to approve. Why do we do audits if what you say is true, that we do not need to control and check the top people?

Gazelle SG

I have done enough in this forum to show them what you have written in this forum to defame our government. facts are facts, they cant be manipulated so you can stop trying.

soul_rage SG

Is it our perception, or is it the truth?
Name me one example in which our govt admitted their mistake and apologise
Name me one structure to check the leaders

Is it perception, or truth?

Note that I won't argue on your 2nd point, because the PAP is smart enough to officially award the people power (elections), but they make sure they minimize our ability to wield it

soul_rage SG

This is not about defaming of govt. This is the points you raised and what I am rebutting. Don't change the topic. You like to do that far too much

I will take away 1) and 3) since its a disagreement between what we perceive each other

Answer qn 2 pls. Is Govt = PAP? Are you sure? Look at the example I quote, and answer is Govt = PAP?
2) This is where you are so wrong. The Govt will NEVER be the PAP. The only reason why we are caught in this stupid situation is that the PAP is running the entire govt (almost), so people tend to say Govt = PAP. For instance, during elections, the PAP CANNOT use HDB upgrading as a carrot because that is taxpayers' money for upgrading. This belongs to the GOVT, NOT the PAP, so the party cannot use the taxpayer's money as their war chest. Every person who pays taxes are entitled to equal rights for upgrading.

The problem with you is that you tend to point fingers at others, when you are doing the EXACT same thing.
When you say we are emotional, aren't you emotional yourself?
You go about sprouting vulgarities at others, and you tell me you are not emotional? Answer this question on your vulgarities and abuse of other people. Don't avoid this accusation anymore (yes, I AM accusing you coz this is a FACT, YOU ABUSE others).

pls answer the points in bold. You accuse us, so please look at yourself and answer the qn, and stop beating ard the bush

Jontst78 SG

True to a certain degree, but not absolute. Smile

Are there many countries with oppressed people and yet still prosperous? Oppressed in this context meaning a similar one party rule, with opposition oppressed?
Or rather, in terms of Press Freedom and human rights ranking, are those countries in the same ranking category as Singapore less or more prosperous?

Thats the thing isnt it? Congressmen are voted in by the people, at the very least these congressmen are questioning the president, and the president has to justify his actions and decisions to congress, or he cannot get congressional approval for certain actions.

Which is very different here, where there is strict party discipline, and thus no PAP mp will vote against a bill brought forward by a PAP minister. Instead of the cabinet justifying themselves to Parliament, (which should be the case). The executive uses Parliament to try and pacify the people.

january SG

they are many questions in this forum u noe.

no one can prove whether a pay rise is justified or not because no one can look in the future.

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