All out to defame our governement

last SG · 2007-06-07T10:34:23+00:00

Not in biomed business, but believe such hubs exist in many places besides Australia and Singapore. not interested in disputing what the australians have est...

maurizio13 SG

I ever spoke to a PR from China working as a hawker, asked him why he didn't want to be citizen, he said it's better in China.

The only other Chinese taking up Singapore citizenship are those using Singapore as a springboard to other countries.

t_a_s SG

PAP will sure win in next election but majority votes will be reduced to abt. 58%. ppl are unhappy about: GST hike, ministerial salary, high cost of living, housing, and medical bill, CPF minimum sum to be delayed til 65, etc....

sgdiehard SG

this is the mentality of LKY and the like, because they fought for Singapore's independence, because they led Singapore through the financial crisis, because they toiled and built singapore to what it is today, therefore, they have the right......... Twisted Evil

The point is, for what you did before, you are enjoying now in Singapore, if not, thank you for having a part in the singapore building. But now we are talking about future, whatever we are doing now will affect my future, me and my family will be here to live with whatever the outcome is, good bad or whatever. Those who migrate will be out there somewhere watching CNN or BBC's reports on Singapore, 'sorry i gave the wrong criticism, but lucky i run faster' Twisted Evil . At least LKY and his family have not migrated, if Singapore sink, all wealth accumulated by he and his family will sink.

When you migrate from Singapore, you cease to have the right as a Singaporean, but of course, you can continue to criticise Singapore with the freedom of speech that comes with your birth, like some of us are doing. But look at what Lionnoisy did, he criticised Australia in a few threads and he was like throwing s h i t on the fan, Laughing Embarassed even the right of speech is righter in some cases and not so right in another.

sgdiehard SG

The importance is how many oppositions get voted in. If we get one GRC plus 3 single constituencies, that would be an achievement. Overall opposition votes has little impact.

maurizio13 SG

brb

sgdiehard SG

you can stay in any country under employment pass, work permit, student visa, or permanent residency, for as long as the host country allows. And until you surrender your Singapore citizenship, you remain a Singaporean, that we have no disagreement.

you can also go stay in any overseas country as illegal immigrant (not caught yet), as refugee seeking political asylum, using tourist visas (just the trouble of getting in and out again) to run away from dai yi long....., or stay away from Singapore for an extended period of time, on a slow cruise around the world, disappear in the amazon jungle for National Geographic, do charity work in the middle of Africa uncontactable,.... Singapore will still recognise you as citizen as long as you hold Singapore passport.

And as long as you have not given up Singapore citizenship, you have not migrated. period.

fymk SG

How flawed is your argument?

Definition of Migration: " A person who leaves his/her country of origin to seek residence in another country."

Another definition "Immigration is the act of moving to or settling in another country or region, temporarily or permanently. An immigrant is someone who intends to reside permanently, and not a casual visitor or traveler. Immigration means "in-migration" into a country, and is the reverse of emigration, or "out-migration." The long term and/or permanent movement of human population in general, whether into, out of, or within countries (or before the existence of recognised countries) is regarded as migration. "

Nowhere does it say that they have to surrender citizenship. The chinese of old Singapore viewed China as their homeland yet they were classed as migrants.

If you don't know what you are talking about - don't say anything , this way no one will know that you are actually ignorant.

fymk SG

David Marshall actually formed the platform for LKY to fight for Singapore's independence. Don't forget David Marshall.

As for LKY and his family, you don't know them and I don't know them. What makes you think their wealth will sink if they leave Singapore? Right now LHL and LKY earning millions per year. Not bad what - if I earn like that in Singapore, I will also stay. Who is to say they didn't "diversify their investments"?

And like I say , your definition of migration is severely flawed - it is yours , not the general accepted definition. Even CID when they ask the reasons for requesting a police check - they have a tickbox on migration. How come CID can accept that definition for migration and you can't ? If that tickbox was marked, how come Singaporeans are not immediately deprived of their citizenship? Before you speak without substantiation, think first.

Lionnoisy can criticise Australia if he/she actually live in Australia. Problem is that LN does not.

will4 SG

This is true as some of them said the amount money used can hardly be saved.

Look at those Malaysian,they can be PR n worked until for a couple of years also can get CPF employer's contribution.

will4 SG

I really cannot understand some local those pro ruling party liked to compared Spore as really lucky live here compared to neighbouring countries.

I still agreed to what u say, unless a person stayed long in a country as a foreigner, they also have the right to critize the country they living in as a foreigner.

snow leopard SG

Originally posted by january:
singapore is not a rich country, does not have natural resources.

on the contrary, it was precisely singapore's strategic location between the far east and the west that it was founded in the first place. that is the first of our natural resources - our location. it is how we got started and which our port and ship building industries depend on even till this day.

in the end, we are not a rich country.

going by our reserves, i beg to differ.

... if you have the opportunity to migrate to other countries that are richer ... than you should migrate because you can have a better life.

needless to say, isn't the spreading of humans across the planet throughout history a migratory search for better places to live?

if you do not have the chance to migrate, you should also be careful not to keep feeling angry that you do not have large pension of retiring and have to work till old age.

just because i cannot migrate doesn't mean i should accept the injustices that exist in my country. that's how society progresses, by people rising up and fighting against injustices. that's how imperialism was swept away in the west to be taken over by democracy.

snow leopard SG

as much as i gather, many people, including educated post 65 generation people are staunchly PAP supporters. they grew up with PAP and have become imbued with the idea that the PAP gave us the good life that we enjoy today so we cannot live without the PAP.

i have a colleague who actually believed all her life that LKY built singapore's economy. i had to tell her that the architect of the singapore economy was goh keng swee, not lky.

then she said lky won us independence from the british. again i had to inform her that that historic role was delivered by david marshall, not lky.

i have another colleague who is supposedly more enlightened who criticises the govt without end and yet professes at the end of the day he wouldn't want anyone to run this country other than the PAP. this colleague was extremely infuriated with the recent minister's pay hike but the solution he proposed was to talk to the ministers in the hope that they would someday understand.

i find his attitude the most incredulous. it's like a hawker, who totally detests the neighbourhood gangsters' extortion for protection money but continues to pay protection money in the hope that the gangster would someday change for the better.

what kind of weakling, futile attitude is this?

how else would you explain that 2/3 of singaporeans want the PAP?

we are the only east asian dragon that hasn't experienced a govt change yet. if taiwan and korea can continue to thrive without their original, autocratic govts, why should people have the idea that we and we alone would fail?

even thailand has survived its military coup. do you see the country collapsing?

fymk SG

David Marshall built the platform on which LKY delivered the "winning" speech.

The reason why the British didn't want to give independence during DM's time was because they thought of him as a loose cannon ( DM was a brutally honest man back then ). DM was fighting for the independence of Singapore as a sovereign state. Go read about the Madeira Talks in London.

LKY managed to work on the foundations which David Marshall fought so hard for. LKY had to merge with Malaysia for independence and Malaya ( Malaysia ) decided to kick Singapore out. So independence was really by accident that Singapore got it.

snow leopard SG

the impt thing to note that it was marshall who went to britain to negotiate independence and he got independence for us as a part of then malaya.

lky never fought for us in the way marshall did. he fought fellow singaporeans instead.

BusSpeeder SG

wrong, PAP do not give us that much of a good life. firstly, if we are given a good life, with the increase of prices and GST, they should increase salaries further, but i have yet to see a obvious increase in them. and PAP had to survive on Goh Keng Swee for the economy, Lim Kim San for HDB, the next minister (i forgotten the name) after david marshall (its not david marshall) for independence, for other transport i don't know, but i do not see ANY contributions made by LKY. at the most/least, tying up other countries relationship and proving that singapore is good. nobody realized that we are going up the ladder scale, our city is becoming more expensive, and yet people praised us for our beautiful garden city, which of course, i think is suitable for, because our country is one of the most beautiful, with the greens, but other people don't realise that our people throw litters. our country is also one of the countries with increasing crime rates due to increasing prices. but i have to agree at certain points, that our police force is very vigilant and the other forces (meaning ambulance, SCDF, navy,army and air force) are indeed, very good. if our government know how to control the pricings, like lowering the costs of GST and other stuffs, i don't think most people here will hate PAP

BusSpeeder SG

for self-independence, david marshall wasn't the one, it was the minister who took over him after he resigned. and yes, our independence was quite coincidental.

fymk SG

He was the one who built the platform.

He was the one who established the Madeira talk. Lim Yew Hock was more pleasing to the British (because he did what the brits wanted) than David Marshall so the British were more open to hearing from LYH.

Rock^Star SG

Big talk and hence, little substance.

I suggest you summarise all of it into one paragraph for that is all it is worth.

fymk SG

Urm not really.

Marshall established the first Madeira talk. He did not succeed so he resigned.

Then in 1959 , Lim Yew Hock established the second Madeira talks and British agreed to let Singaporeans vote but not let her go independently

PAP came into power with those votes. They opted to join Malaya and Malaya kicked them out after the racial riots - which accidentally meant that Singapore was independent.

So basically LKY won independence for Singapore by default because Malaya wanted them out.

maurizio13 SG

He's not the only one who fought for independence. There are others who fought with him, which were subsequently thrown into jail with ISA.

Financial crisis? Ever heard of "out of the frying pan and into the fire"? He fought for democracy but ended up with a dictatorial regime.

Hong Kong didn't have a LKY, but it ended up just as prosperous under the British colonial system. The success of Singapore does not belong solely to LKY, it belongs to all the old folks who work hard to put us where we are today. If LKY is so capable, he should go Indonesia and try to turn it into what Singapore is today. Like I said before, demographics plays a part in the development of a nation.

They have the right to do as they please? Does it mean that if I save your life, I can enslave you? Get real!!! Singapore doesn't belong to him, Singapore belongs to the citizens!!!

Don't understand your first six lines of post.
Ermm....What makes you think that all his wealth is in Singapore? He could have diversified all his assets elsewhere. These days, no smart investor would restrict his assets to one category af assets and one market. They hold a diversified portfolio of assets to reduce the risk, in case if Singapore should fall, they still have other assets.

Lionnoisy is a frog in a well perspective, he hasn't been to any other country, all his life is in Singapore.

Lionnoisy: Never been a citizen of Australia, never lived in Australia for a few years, only stayed in Singapore all his life.

Ex-Singapore citizens: Live as a citizen of Singapore for a good 20 years, changed citizenship to another country.

Voila!!!

See the difference?

« Previous Page Next Page »