We should outsource our electricity needs to Malaysia!!!!!!

last SG · 2006-12-02T04:57:42+00:00

when in a conflict take over that "another country" lor... with army from other country with outsource to lor....

I-like-flings(m) SG

u feel???? u sure that is the correct word to use? Mr. Green

maurizio13 SG

The figures you gave doesn't doesn't tell us anything about the cost of generating 1 Kwh of electricity at all. It just tells us that it's subsidised, but you still don't know what it takes to produce 1 Kwh of electricity.

Based on the California Energy Commission, the Levelized Cost of producing 1 Kwh using Natural Gas is 5.18 US Cents. When converted to Singapore terms, it's 8.08 Singapore Cents per 1 Kwh, which fails miserably when compared to the 21.64 Cents/Kwh Singapore Power charges Singapore citizens.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/electricity/levelized_cost.html

You did not provide any answers to why Australia and USA mind boggingly cheap cost of producing electricity, which is like half the price we get from Singapore Power. You didn't produce data to compare the cost of producing 1 Kwh of electricity, you just produced irrelevant data to smokescreen the discussion.

dragg SG

we had a power failure once recently.

have you forgotten?

of course, that does not mean they are inefficient.

maurizio13 SG

I managed to find the cost of producing 1 Kwh of electricity under inefficient means, through the use of mobile power generators using diesel.

Diesel is a cheap component from distillating a barrel of oil. 44 gallons are produced from 1 barrel of oil, of which 9.2 gallons are diesel. We will assume that diesel and gasonline & jet fuel are priced the same and the cost of 1 barrel of oil is USD 60

http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/story/chapter08.html

Cost per gallon of diesel:
(USD 60 / 44 gallons) = USD 1.36/gallon of diesel (SGD 2.12 / gallon of diesel)

Diesel engine-generator sets operated at their best efficiency point can produce between 3 and 4 kilowatthours of electrical energy for each litre of diesel fuel consumed, with lower efficiency at part load.

1 US gallon = 3.785 litres

Therefore SGD 2.12 / gallon of diesel is equivalent to 3.785 litres.

We take the average of "3 and 4 kilowatthours of electrical energy for each litre of diesel fuel consumed", we get 3.5 Kwh / litre.

For the SGD 2.12 you pay for 3.785 litres of diesel, it will produce:

3.785 litres X 3.5 Kwh/litre = 13.25 Kwh

Therefore 1 Kwh of electricity generation based on inefficient method is:

SGD 2.12 / 13.25 = 16 cents/Kwh

Under very inefficient means of electricity generation, we can still achieve 16 cents/Kwh. What does this tell us about the 21.64 cents / Kwh Singapore Power charges Singapore citizens?

Hogzilla SG

Errrr, in case all of you dunno it, I heard from an unconfirm source, Singapore have a two year food reserve hidden somewhere.

Hogzilla SG

Sa la word liao.

Should be:

knnb Mad E govt is exploiting us. Mad Evil or Very Mad

Hogzilla SG

I think the best way to bring down the price of the big E, is to bring in private companies to compete with SPower, just like how M1 was brought in to compete with Singtel (Starhub not included har. The green and the red shares the same boss, M1 boss is two Malaysian and HK company).

Then SPower will be trying it's ways and means to bring down operating cost in order to compete with these companies.

maurizio13 SG

Don't think it's possible to have so much food reserves. I don't think it's possible, because food will spoil if kept too long.

Arbitarily, let's say 1 person consume 0.25kg of rice a day.

One year he will consume 0.2kg X 365 days = 91.25kg.

4 million singapore will consume:

4,000,000 X 91.25kg = 365,000,000 kg/ year

For 2 years:

365,000,000 kg X 2 years = 730,000,000 kg for 2 years

You know those huge containers at PSA, the big 40 ft container holds 26,680 kg.

http://www.geseaco.com/GESeaCo/ContainerFleet/DryFreightBoxes/

You would need:

730,000,000 kg / 26,680 kg/container = 27,361 containers.

Think you need a volume the size of 27,361 containers to hold everything.

^Delta^ SG

Its a good thing that our government does not comprise ppl like you.

Block off our sea lanes? Just try. We have the largest stockpile of anti-ship missiles in South East Asia.

Starve to death? You obviously dun noe abt the RSAF and airlift operations using civil resources.

100% imports? Do some research before u make sweeping statements like this.

Have u studied economics before? Why not make it mandatory for the whole world to have equal prices for electricity?

maurizio13 SG

Do you have any data to back up any of your claims?

Not 100% agricultural imports? Last I checked Singapore doesn't have any rice plantation, large vegetable plantation, sugarcane plantation, etc.

There isn't even a need to block off sea lanes, all there needs to be is just some conflict and all ships will avoid this area like a plague.

In order to fire you anti ship missiles, you need to be in range and fire before the enemy fires at you, it's a 50:50 chance, not 100%.

In the law of one price, only one price exist to clear the market. In case you don't know, we have one price for gold, one price for a barrel of oil, etc.

If good cost of computers cost $2,000 in Singapore and only $1,000 in Malaysia, consumers will exploit the difference in price to make a profit, till there exist a common price between the 2 countries such that $1,000 + cost of transportation + small profit.

Makes me wonder if you studied economics.

Very Happy

ObiterDicta SG

You are likely to be paid more than twice the salary of a person doing the same job in Malaysia.

You want your pay to be equalised or not? If not, don't just anyhow hantam and kau peh kau bu.

Your grasp of energy economics is quite poor. You wrote about Middle East oil, but we don't use that to generate our electricity. We use natural gas from both Malaysia and Indonesia.

*yawn*

obiterdicta

Originally posted by maurizio13:
Since cost competiveness is the keyword these days, with the lowering of corporate tax rates and all.

I think we should get our electricity supply from Malaysia, since their cost is only:

The average tariff in Peninsular Malaysia, Sabah and Sarawak is 23.5 sen/kWh, 24.0 sen/Kwh and 27.1 sen/Kwh respectively.

http://www.st.gov.my/statistics/SESB.html

For your information, the sen use in Malaysia is half of Singapore's cent.

As compared to Singapore Power's charge of 21.64 cent/Kwh.

Current exchange rate is SGD 1.00 = MYR 2.35.

When you convert Malaysia's most expensive rate of 27.1 sen over to Singapore dollars, it's only [b]11.53 cents/Kwh as compared to the current 21.64 cents/Kwh.

Maybe it's time the government consider outsourcing it's energy needs to the more efficient energy company Suruhanjaya Tenaga (Malaysia), instead of relying on our inefficient Singapore Power.

The rate of 27.1 sen/Kwh is just an average rate, the rates can go as low as 16 sen/Kwh for Sabah.

http://www.st.gov.my/statistics/SESB.html

If Singapore Power is so inefficient!!!

Shut it down!!!

Don't waste our resources!!!!

We can get cheaper power from Malaysia!!![/b]

maurizio13 SG

*yawn*

Ermmm, since when I said we rely on middle eastern crude oil (diesel) to produce electricity, I was merely stating a very "inefficient" method of electricity production, it's still cheaper than Singapore Power. Don't put words in my mouth!

"Well, we get our oil from middle east, if middle east doesn't to provide us with oil. What are we going to do? Simple, find another source."

This statement has nothing to do with electricity generation, I am using it as an example to explain outsourcing. Did it mention anything about electricity generation?

FYI, it's a whole lot cheaper to produce electricity by natural gas, based on California Energy Commission's report in 2003, it's like 4.58 US cents/Kwh, even if you inflate it by 100%, it's still around 10 US cents/Kwh.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/2003_energypolicy/documents/2003-02-25+26_workshop/100-03-001SD_BADR.PDF

*YAWN*

ratio decidendi

oxford mushroom SG

Little boy, go and read up before you make all these bold remarks..the Malaysian government gives a retail subsidy of about 22% in addition to unknown amount of subsidies directly to the producers. The former is in the Malaysian government website I quoted. No studies on the latter have been performed but if you are interested to know about government subsidies in Australia, go read this paper:

http://www.isf.uts.edu.au/publications/CR_2003_paper.pdf

maurizio13 SG

Little girl,

Your subsidy don't tell us anything about the cost of 1 Kwh of electricity.

If it cost me 10 cents to produce 1 Kwh of electricity, the government subsidizes 20%, which is 2 cents, if I sell it for 15 cents/Kwh, the company still makes 7 cents from 1 Kwh. 7 cents out of 8 cents is approximately a mark up of 100%.

Subsidy don't tell you sh|ts if you don't know how and where it is allocated.

maurizio13 SG

Natural Gas Trade In The Market Without Government Subsidies.

Current Spot Price for Natural Gas NYMEX.

USD 10.77/MMbtu

1 MMbtu = 1,000,000 btu

1 Kwh = 3413 btu

1,000,000 btu / 3413 btu = 292.99 Kwh

USD 10.77 X 1.56 = SGD 16.80

which means SGD 16.80 will produce 292.99 Kwh of electricity. I am not sure what is the process loss (of if there is any) during the conversion from natural gas to electricity, but let's say it's 10%. So we end up with (292 Kwh X 90%) = 263.69 Kwh.

If you divide the cost by the 263.69 Kwh, you get:

6.37 cents/Kwh as compared to 21.64 cents/Kwh for Singapore Power

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/ngw/ngupdate.asp

We can have a process loss during conversion of up to 50% and still make a hefty profit when we sell at 15 cents/Kwh.

292.99Kwh x 50% = 146.50Kwh

SGD 16.80 / 146.50 Kwh = 11.47 cents/Kwh

vito_corleone SG

you obviously underestimate our MIW, if they can devise cunning plans to milk the population of their money they can devise plans to keep the supply going even after a bombardment, and what good will an existing SAF do if it can't even protect the mainland from being blown back to the stoneage Laughing

maurizio13 SG

Unfortunately, we don't have any track record to prove it. All our soldiers are freshies, who may succumb to shell shock at the first sound of enemy fire directed at them and the sight of blood.

Hocklez SG

pls, there is something call self reliance.

u might as well outsource everything to malaysia and when relations turn sour, see how u get ur cheaper electric...

maurizio13 SG

Is there self reliance on our agricultural products? If relationship turns sour where are we going to get our basic food? We can always get from other sources.

Anyway my point isn't about outsourcing, the main issue is that, our electricity cost is too ridiculously expensive. Go see the conversion for natural gas to electricity I posted earlier.

Don't always believe what they feed you in the media and newspaper, use a bit of your brain to think.

It cost like 6.37 cents/Kwh using market spot rates for natural gas with 10% process loss, whereas Singapore Power charges us 21.64 cents/Kwh.

Don't you think Singapore Power is milking us too much?

Somebody also mentioned earlier that we get our natural gas from Malaysia and Indonesia. Why don't you ask yourself where are we going to get natural gas if relationship turns sour? Isn't this the same as purchasing electricity from Malaysia?

vito_corleone SG

going by your philosophy, we might as well outsource our defense to malaysia. Laughing

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