We should outsource our electricity needs to Malaysia!!!!!!

last SG · 2006-12-02T04:57:42+00:00

when in a conflict take over that "another country" lor... with army from other country with outsource to lor....

maurizio13 SG

That is your logic, not mine, I didn't say it.

Hehehe

Got nothing else to say, change subject.

Tsk Tsk.

If you can't defeat him, switch to another topic.

Are you going to rebutt all my points?

I am only stating facts.

miserable SG

hmm....like that hah ? Outsourcing is part of globalization right ? Maybe we should not only consider outsourcing electricity needs but also our gahment too. Laughing

Idea Get a few FT that be able to do the job at a lower cost.

maurizio13 SG

Good idea, they always let in FT to take away our jobs.

Maybe we should get FT take away their's, it's cheaper leh, Zhu RongJi, Hu Jingtao, etc.

All cheaper than our gabrament, think with only the mee siam mai hum's pay, can employ 100 top level government officials.

1 ZhuGeLiang cannot beat 3 ZhuPiJiang.

dragg SG

mai gong ah.

even if electricity is outsourced they will come up with import tax for electricity.

strikefreedom SG

Put aside the cost, think about what will happen if we rely on them for our power supply. What if we get attack by them? They will just need to cut off our electricity and we will be at their mercy in no time.

Also are their power station as reliable as other? You prefer to pay cheaper price and keep getting glitches or power surge every now and then or prefer to have a stable and reliable source?

Another issue is, what is their power station is down? One day of no electricity island wide in Singapore is equal to how much $$$ lost, go calculate it please.

Not all thing can be outsource. You may end up losing more then you think you are saving.

maurizio13 SG

Like I said earlier on, we already rely on them for our natural gas. What if they don't give us the natural gas? Isn't it the same as not providing us the electricity? Same problem isn't it. Don't rely on them 100%, have other contingency plans.

Think nowadays can store the electricity.

From the NYMEX Natural Gas Spot Rate:

It cost like 6.37 cents/Kwh using market spot rates for natural gas with 10% process loss, whereas Singapore Power charges us 21.64 cents/Kwh.

strikefreedom SG

Originally posted by maurizio13:

Like I said earlier on, we already rely on them for our natural gas. What if they don't give us the natural gas? Isn't it the same as not providing us the electricity? Same problem isn't it. Don't rely on them 100%, have other contingency plans.

Think nowadays can store the electricity.

[b]From the NYMEX Natural Gas Spot Rate:

It cost like 6.37 cents/Kwh using market spot rates for natural gas with 10% process loss, whereas Singapore Power charges us 21.64 cents/Kwh. [/b]

We don't rely on them 100% for our power generation fuel and that not the only point i mention. I do mention abt reliability too and the loses we will suffer if there a island wide power failure.

But there are things that we cannot outsource to other countries as it will put us in a totally disadvantage position. Fuel we can always buy from other source if they refuse to sell us.

Unless you can say they provide as good reliablity as what we getting at present, and you can be 100% sure that there won't be aggression by them, then this is nothing but a mindless rant.

maurizio13 SG

Do you know that Singapore Power has a "Return On Equity" of 26%?

Means if you have $100 capital invested in the business, you get a return of $26 at the end of the year.

KNN which stock market can give this kind of return for such low a risk?

maurizio13 SG

Power failure is due to cable damage done excessive digging due to road works.

As the electricity can be store, we should be able to store sufficient amount to provide for such contingencies.

All the major power failure you see here is due to the Singapore Power's fault, the substation overload, something they didn't service broke.

The Malaysian end only generate electricity.

Sometimes I think it's counterproductive also, because if Singapore Power gets cheaper electricity from Malaysia, they own't sell it to us cheap, they will still charge us the same and make more profit from it.

In this world, nobody can guarantee you anything with 100% certainty, other than death and taxes.

Anyway, don't think too linearly about the topic, the issue is not about outsourcing, it's about the exhorbitant prices Singapore Power charges Singapore citizens. What cost only 6-7 cents to produce, they sell to Singaporeans at 21.64 cents.

That's about 3 times the actual cost!!!

strikefreedom SG

Originally posted by maurizio13:
[b]Do you know that Singapore Power has a "Return On Equity" of 26%?

Means if you have $100 capital invested in the business, you get a return of $26 at the end of the year.

KNN which stock market can give this kind of return for such low a risk?[/b]

LOL tell me which company like to make a loss? If they are going to make a loss, this mean goverment need to pump in $$$ and where does this $$$ come from? It from our reserves and tax. If this goes on for the next 10 years, i can't think what will happen to our reserves that we save up so hard.

kilua SG

http://investintaiwan.nat.gov.tw/en/news/200602/2006022201.html

February 22, 2006

Taiwan's household electricity price was NTD 2.35 per unit in 2005, according to the Directorate-General of Budget, Accounting and Statistics. While this is higher than the per-unit price of NTD 1.06 in China, it is lower than in many other nations. For instance, the per-unit electricity price is NTD 6.63 in Japan, NTD 4.93 in Great Britain, NTD 4.80 in France, NTD 2.80 in the United States and NTD 2.74 in South Korea.

Thermal power plants account for 73.4% of the nation's electricity generation, while nuclear power accounts for 22.5%. Nuclear power's contribution to Taiwan's total electricity output has declined 15.7% over the last 20 years.

cost of electricity per unit in

taiwan 11 cents
China 5cents
Japan 31 cents
US 13 cents
France 22 cents
Korea 13 cents

Cost of electricity in different US states

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/cost.html

strikefreedom SG

OMG you noob. Power failure are due to many reasons not just cable been damage. LOL There no 100% reliablility, this i agree, but can they sustain the same reliability as we have at present? malaysian end oni generate electricity, does that mean that their power station will not have down time? WOW u sure got faith in them. LOL maybe they should hired u as their ambassador to promote their company.

kilua SG

26% for utilities is probably too high for a sector known for stable returns

maurizio13 SG

Kilua,

Any explanations for this?

Originally posted by maurizio13:
[b]Natural Gas Trade In The Market Without Government Subsidies.

Current Spot Price for Natural Gas NYMEX.

USD 10.77/MMbtu

1 MMbtu = 1,000,000 btu

1 Kwh = 3413 btu

1,000,000 btu / 3413 btu = 292.99 Kwh

USD 10.77 X 1.56 = SGD 16.80

which means SGD 16.80 will produce 292.99 Kwh of electricity. I am not sure what is the process loss (of if there is any) during the conversion from natural gas to electricity, but let's say it's 10%. So we end up with (292 Kwh X 90%) = 263.69 Kwh.

If you divide the cost by the 263.69 Kwh, you get:

6.37 cents/Kwh as compared to 21.64 cents/Kwh for Singapore Power

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/ngw/ngupdate.asp

We can have a process loss during conversion of up to 50% and still make a hefty profit when we sell at 15 cents/Kwh.

292.99Kwh x 50% = 146.50Kwh

SGD 16.80 / 146.50 Kwh = 11.47 cents/Kwh
[/b]

strikefreedom SG

Dun forget they have other investment in other countries too. So 26% may not be pure profit made in Singapore

kilua SG

it sure does raise an issue whether the government is overcharging us for electricity.

maurizio13 SG

Sighs, no point talking to you.

Go read what you quote me saying, then read your response.

strikefreedom SG

How do we define been overcharge or undercharge? Different ppl have different point on views and when we made decision, it lies with what we term important and what not important to made the decision. So there won;t be a solution to pleasing everyone. Unless you are there when they made the decision on how much should be charge, else it hard to justify just based on what we are looking at. Hope u get what i mean.

Make it simpler. In work, we made decision that will affect various dept, section and ppl. We can;t please everyone, but we need to come up with something that we think it the best. But at the end of the days, ppl will still say things about u been selfish, brainless, idiot etc. so what u do?

maurizio13 SG

http://www.singaporepower.com.sg/index.html

Click on "Financial Highlights", under FY 05/06, you will see $1,318 million Net Profit After Taxation, $5,062 million Total Shareholders Equity. I did not even use the average of Shareholder's equity (average for the 2 financial years), it might result in even higher Return On Equity.

strikefreedom SG

More like no point talking to u. please get ur knowledge on how electricity are generated, as well as the knowledge of the pros and cons of outsourcing.

Not everything can be outsource for god sake.

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