Israel Attacks Lebanon

last SG · 2006-07-28T14:52:01+00:00

Everyone is claiming victory at the end of the 34 days war. Mr Bush said Hezbollah suffered a defeat with a straight face. Pointed finger at Iran for supplyi...

surfer188 SG

In all ancient counties during their establishment, there are sure some people loss out in their controls, homes, land, life.... during this time. Israel & palestinian situation is reflecting this. Romans kills a lot of people & en-slave much more when they occupy lands also. The world is not balance, sad to say, usually is the stronger ones wins. Israel & Palestinian situation is reflecting this also. It will be never ending by who owns what & should return what. No doubt the weaker will fight with all their might, only the stronger one wins & stay put. This is nature's law to ensure the world goes round.

Such situations now we seeing, cannot be blame on just one side. Both did something wrong & both are not going to work for their future. If you were here for sometimes, please notice how the people behave. They can only contain their own views & liking. Not even a sand of others can be contain. This very behaviour effects current situations a lot.

As why Israel holds Hama money when they are elected. Do you know Hama's are known to link very tightly to Terrorism? Would you give money to someone buying guns to kill you? Isreal hold their money having some reason, I wish you read more or find out more informations before stating this fact. Israel & UN did want to un-freeze Hama's bank with promises that they cut ties with terrorism. This was not reach till now. Why can't have more patience to work towards peace? More rockets was launched right away.

The confiscated money was written in newspaper. It maybe wrong for the usage of money but to the lesser extend, it should be coming into Palestianian thru bank transfer. Not smuggling. Don't you know travelling with large amount of cash is an offence already? Some may argue the bank account is frozen. This falls back to "Stops terrorism & Bank account will flow."

Again, don't just see hear Isreal uses extreme harassment tactics. There is some methods used to control people. Again it was both sides are also doing the extreme. If there is no rockets, suicide bombing, .... there is no extra cautious taken against. All country under such situation will take up counter-measures. I only agreed to some points Isreallis sometimes have taken too much cautious, but we cannot put all blames on one side. We are talking about life & death. Who would like to work in check points to face potential suicide bombers? No one likes to do this. If Singapore were to face rocket attack, I am sure more counter-measures are taken also.

I cannot do estimations on death in Lebanon. If you read more, notice country with report higher amount of deaths to claim pity & money thru donations. Points to know, do your donations wisely. Don't donate to people the harm others. The recent collapse building in Lebanon was reported 54 deaths including 27 kids. The very next day reported only 21 body was found inside that building with 16 kids. Don't just believe News, they could sometime reflect some wrong informations. In many cases, a lot of times news is "NOT THAT CORRECT."

Don't jump on one side. It takes 2 hands to clap. I believe there will be ways for peaceful time, but it's not in our near future.

Israel time 9:18pm. Could still hear in great distant non-regular bombing the north started early afternoon, till now.

surfer188 SG

Don't just see hear. I believe there is lot of hate on what Israel is doing. Don't just blame one side. I would like to know where this 4 million people are now for my knowledge to this region? Numbers can be easily said, 4 millions is a lot of people. But why? I believe if so many were un-justified UN will speak something. Maybe I do not know this. Tell me.

When north & south Korea split, so many families are broken also. But do the North or south Korean display so much hate that became terrorism? There is north/south Korea war, & it's about that's all. Not such act of Terrorism like what's happening now. It's the people's behaviour here. They can contain only themself. Not even a sand of others.

Don't you know Singapore also uses HDB quota to mix malays, indians & chinese. So that there is no area that have very high concentrated of one kind of race. I think Israel is doing this also. Mixing people, moving people, re-location of people to reduce concentrated threats. This is known to be effective to some extends, but it takes a long time. Singapore is a huge sucess in this area.

The Holy Land has lots of tears & blood shed. Promotions of LOVE have not come to deliver it's result. It's human' behaviour & refusal to accept what it is causes now what. If people themselves do not change their fixed point of views & behaviour, LOVE will not deliver it's result even it's holy land. It's acceptances of others that lead to more friends & people. Hate & violence drives away friends, people & create enemy. Built bridges not walls.

MobyDog SG

First of all.. I am just reply to your over - simplistic post

and I will only reply some portion of your post.

Originally posted by surfer188:
In all ancient counties during their establishment, there are sure some people loss out in their controls, homes, land, life.... during this time. Israel & palestinian situation is reflecting this. Romans kills a lot of people & en-slave much more when they occupy lands also. The world is not balance, sad to say, usually is the stronger ones wins. Israel & Palestinian situation is reflecting this also. It will be never ending by who owns what & should return what. No doubt the weaker will fight with all their might, only the stronger one wins & stay put. This is nature's law to ensure the world goes round.

We are living in a so-called modern society now... certain world moral ethics have to be followed.. not just pretend so.

As why Israel holds Hama money when they are elected. Do you know Hama's are known to link very tightly to Terrorism? Would you give money to someone buying guns to kill you? Isreal hold their money having some reason, I wish you read more or find out more informations before stating this fact. Israel & UN did want to un-freeze Hama's bank with promises that they cut ties with terrorism. This was not reach till now. Why can't have more patience to work towards peace? More rockets was launched right away.

First of all.. when the Palestinian election started .. HAMAs is publicly a candidate with full knowledge of Israel and their minion USA. The reason why the money was held was that they are not happy the Hamas was elected almost immediately.. they voiced this openly... If it were because of Terrorism than why don't they reject HAMA participation.. Israel do has nukes and bigger guns.

Finally, UN has nothing to do with the withholding the money.. in fact .. the opposite.. where do you read your news.

The confiscated money was written in newspaper. It maybe wrong for the usage of money but to the lesser extend, it should be coming into Palestianian thru bank transfer. Not smuggling. Don't you know travelling with large amount of cash is an offence already? Some may argue the bank account is frozen. This falls back to "Stops terrorism & Bank account will flow."

and who has cut off palestinian banking line ? an Palestinian Official bring in money into Palestine under seige is illegal.. only to the one seiging them.

Stop illegal occupation, return the land and stop the seige, or Terrorism will also likely flow.

Again, don't just see hear Isreal uses extreme harassment tactics. There is some methods used to control people. Again it was both sides are also doing the extreme. If there is no rockets, suicide bombing, .... there is no extra cautious taken against. All country under such situation will take up counter-measures. I only agreed to some points Isreallis sometimes have taken too much cautious, but we cannot put all blames on one side. We are talking about life & death. Who would like to work in check points to face potential suicide bombers? No one likes to do this. If Singapore were to face rocket attack, I am sure more counter-measures are taken also.

Not all countries occupies another countries land and don't expect any difference.

I cannot do estimations on death in Lebanon. If you read more, notice country with report higher amount of deaths to claim pity & money thru donations. Points to know, do your donations wisely. Don't donate to people the harm others. The recent collapse building in Lebanon was reported 54 deaths including 27 kids. The very next day reported only 21 body was found inside that building with 16 kids. Don't just believe News, they could sometime reflect some wrong informations. In many cases, a lot of times news is "NOT THAT CORRECT."

Nice try, it is actually 28 bodies found and 13 missing. totally 51.. so it was not too far from original 54. Nice media manupilation.

Even in Natural earthquake, when a building collapse, even with heavy machinery.. it takes a week to dig out bodies.. so the 13 missing are presumed dead and is probably under the rubble. They are reported by relatives who couldn't find them on top soil and couldn't stay .. because you know they will either be called human shield, terrorist or simply starved to death.

And the IDF was honest about those rockets being fired from/near the building ??? and is it not that more children was killed than IDF soldiers ??

Israel time 9:18pm. Could still hear in great distant non-regular bombing the north started early afternoon, till now.

You should be proud of your boys.. 9000+4000(yesterday) arty shells for 1800++ rockets.

Dounut SG

Simple question:

How many United States are there in America ? ? Rolling Eyes

Dounut SG

"Fair enough" means answering my question of "How many United States there are in America" ? ? Confused

What kind of answer is this? Shocked

If not, than you are still skipping my ONE simple question. How many United States are there in America ? ? Rolling Eyes

1 - The exact place, where 2 Israelis soldiers were "Capture" by Hezbollah depends on which news & sources you refer to, thus the map came in to the picture.

2 - From the start, I never disputed that "Aïta Al-Chaab" in not in Lebanon.

Thus, these are 2 issues. You keep subjectively picking what you want & jumping into your own conclusion.

Finally, I have another question, did other sources besides Hezbollah, insisted that the 2 Israelis soldiers were "Capture" in Aïta Al-Chaab, inside Lebanon ? ?

MobyDog SG

Originally posted by Dounut:

"Fair enough" means answering my question of "How many United States there are in America" ? ? Confused

What kind of answer is this? Shocked

If not, than you are still skipping my ONE simple question. How many United States are there in America ? ? Rolling Eyes

You're making a fool out of yourself... Evil or Very Mad

1 - The exact place, where 2 Israelis soldiers were "Capture" by Hezbollah depends on which news & sources you refer to, thus the map came in to the picture.

Originally posted by Dounut:
Inside Israel or Lebanon, it all depends on which version's map you are looking at, since the "Border Line" keep changing from those major wars

2 - From the start, I never disputed that "Aïta Al-Chaab" in not in Lebanon

Originally posted by Dounut:
Inside Israel or Lebanon, it all depends on which version's map you are looking at, since the "Border Line" keep changing from those major wars

Originally posted by Dounut:
The word Aïta Al-Chaab which you use, already decided that version of map & story you choose to believe !

Thus, these are 2 issues. You keep subjectively picking what you want & jumping into your own conclusion.

Go find a hole .. and bury you own head into it.

Finally, I have another question, did other sources besides Hezbollah, insisted that the 2 Israelis soldiers were "Capture" in Aïta Al-Chaab, inside Lebanon ?

Is all other sources information relied and originated from the Israelis that the two soldiers were Captured near the border - inside lsrael ? Doesn't this also holds true ??

ctstalin SG

1? your point being? Question Rolling Eyes

surfer188 SG

Hey Mobydog,

I think you don't accept that both party Israel & Palestinian did something against each other. It's not just here do not have world moral ethics. Many places. Let me ask you a straight question, "Have you been in Israel, Gaza or Lebanon?" You will find each is painting their own stories. Modern world do not face out stronger wins, it's the way to do it humanly. Weather Isreal has bought this land from Palestinian or have snatch them away. Both Israel & Palestinian should solve it "world moral ethics" "no matter which party is poorer or richer or lesser in weapon". Don't you agree? Resulting in Terrorism, Rocket, War, ... are all "NON-Moral Ethics." That's include both.

To reject Hamas's participations or not is really not for you & me to understand. It's political. If to kick Hamas out of elections, it will shows Israel or that government then is sidings some parties. Hamas did have a long history with Terrorism. Their elections speach was always inclusive of using forces/methods to kick out Israel.

In airports of Customs. I remember the maximum Cash can be carried do have some limits. Don't mind you can search this. April this year, when I was in China Beijing, the maximum Cash one can carry is RMB or equilvent is RMB$20,000 if I am not wrong. Most country have this laws to block money laundry or illegal transactions.

There is always a out-cry of illegal occupations of Palestnian land. Some may be true, some not. From the Israellis side, not my view, their land was mostly bought thru a transactions of gold. Then I believe Israelli grow or expand their land. This may have cause the confusion. I think Isreal have uses some methods to suppress others. Not ethical either.

As you can see, the news you have seen & what I have see can have different figures. All painting their different storys. From my side of the news, it's 21 body found with 16 kids. Let it be with the numbers, people are been hurt & killed at this very moment. The very un-expected was, war started for sometimes, most logical is to leave war zone areas, like the millions who had left. There may be reasons why they are there. If rockets are to fly near me. I am sure be in my car to a safer area. War in urban areas, always more civilian dead. IDF have stronger fire power & it's fighting on Lebanon land, no doubt Lebanon suffer more.

surfer188 SG

I am not pro-Israel. I feel both sides have did something wrong against each other. Both have done un-ethical actions. So don't quote me as "Proud of your boys"

I have read your lines, maybe you have not consider for all sides. Israel & Palestnians have a very long history. If both want their future to be bright, both should stop un-ethical actions, start talking & built their future.

MobyDog SG

Only to comment some points

Originally posted by surfer188:

[quote]To reject Hamas's participations or not is really not for you & me to understand. It's political. If to kick Hamas out of elections, it will shows Israel or that government then is sidings some parties. Hamas did have a long history with Terrorism. Their elections speach was always inclusive of using forces/methods to kick out Israel.

Well you see my confusion.

On one side you said that Israel is trying not to be seen siding any parties, and on the other you'r saying the have a history of terrorism. On the subject matter - Since when being democratically elected is a terrorist activity ?

In airports of Customs. I remember the maximum Cash can be carried do have some limits. Don't mind you can search this. April this year, when I was in China Beijing, the maximum Cash one can carry is RMB or equilvent is RMB$20,000 if I am not wrong. Most country have this laws to block money laundry or illegal transactions.

On the subject matter, whether it is illegal to bring in money is the matter to the Palestinian Authority to decide... which part of they being under seige... do you not understand.. the need the money.

If you try to paint that those money was to be use to buy Weapons. Then the money should be going out of Palestine or buy the weapons with the money without entering palestine. Unless, you mean that they can buy weapons from the occupation force - the IDF.

There is always a out-cry of illegal occupations of Palestnian land. Some may be true, some not. From the Israellis side, not my view, their land was mostly bought thru a transactions of gold. Then I believe Israelli grow or expand their land. This may have cause the confusion. I think Isreal have uses some methods to suppress others. Not ethical either.

You mean they bought the lands inside GAZA.. where Israel built their Settlements.. or are you trying to mix it up with inside Israel ??

Gazelle SG

There are only 3 words which BUSH used to describe the event,

Terrorist, Democracy and Freedom.

Terrorist = Fighters that dont use American weapon
Democracy = Having a American leader
Freedom = You get fcuked by the americans for free.

SilverPal SG

Do you know the difference between soldiers and terrorists? If you had gone through NS, you would have learnt the difference according to the Geneva Convention.

The poorly armed Chinese SOLDIERS wore their own uniforms, strapped bombs onto their bodies to stop the japanese TANKS.

The NVA was the North Vietnamese ARMY. They were the legitimate military and seldom indulged in bombing crowded markets and kidnapping and beheading foreigners. They fought against the South Vietnamese military and the foreign SOLDIERS.

The VC, although their operations were predominately against the enemy soldiers, they were considered terrorists according to the Geneva Convention.

VC suicide bombers are terrorists. NVA sappers are not.

Next thing someone is going to tell me is that the terrorists are too poor to buy uniforms to wear (in accordance with the Geneva Convention) but yet they have enough money to buy rockets and explosives.

It is indeed sad that some one could be driven to suicide bombing, this I would lay the blame on Israel yet having said that, I wonder what else could Israel have done in the face of such blatant hostility.

SilverPal SG

Then Israel would have conquered lebanon and their enemies would fire rockets into the newly conquered land, and Israel would respond by invading even deeper into the foreign land, and the cycle continues.

SilverPal SG

Nar, you don't get fcuked by the americans for free, you have to get fcuked by the americans and also give them money, that's the bush freedom.

Bush isn't exactly very diplomatic and his cowboy habits die hard. Ride into town, shoot up the bad guys, ride to the next town. If only international politics was like a western movie, then we would solve world problems after the half hour episode.

Dounut SG

More than 1 Twisted Evil

Go find out more.

Dounut SG

See ? ? This is the problem. You strongly believed your source of information must be correct, where "Habollah captured the 2 Israelis soldiers INSIDE Lebanon", thus you already decided the side of they story you choose to believe, where Habollah used their version of map. Twisted Evil

Habollah is not stupid enough to tell you that they captured 2 Israelis soldiers inside Lebanon, in a town called "Qiriat Shmona", right ? ? Shocked

Yes, I did write this. I was talking about if the 2 Israelis soldiers were capture inside Israel or Lebanon, depending on which side of the story & sources, thus the map came into the picture. Did I mentioned 2 Israelis soldiers were capture in Aïta Al-Chaab, which is inside Israel or Lebanon ? ? Shocked

NO. It's You ! ! Evil or Very Mad

I only mentioned about the 2 Israelis soldiers who were caught, whether is inside Israel or Lebanon. I never agreed with your source of 2 Israelis soldiers were capture in Aïta Al-Chaab ! !

You yourself jump into the conculsion & assume I am talking about the location of Aïta Al-Chaab ! ! Idea

You like to assume words & jump into your own conclusion, that is your problem, but don't put your words into my posts & twisted my words ! ! Evil or Very Mad

One simple example:

United States of America & America are DIFFERENT issues. United States of America is a country in the America Continent, America is a Continent, just like Asia ! ! Idea

That is you, for not answering my question. Twisted Evil

Yet, keep hiding your own head inside a hold & refused to see the lights ! ! Laughing

Your head was already stuck inside a hold for some times already ! ! Laughing Mr. Green

Worst than explaining to a 3 years old kid. I rest my case. Period. Twisted Evil

ctstalin SG

wtf? there is only 1 US in the american continent... Laughing

Dounut SG

Nia. You are wrong. Go find out. Cool

oxford mushroom SG

You want to know how the UN says about the matter?http://www.un.org/unrwa/refugees/whois.html

The UN cannot do anything if the US continue to side with Israel over this issue. An example of UN resolutions against Israel and the US veto:
A selected list (full list too long) of US vetoes cast against UN Security Council Resolutions on Palestine

1. 24 Jul. 1973. S/10974

Vote: 13 in favor, 1 veto (US), 1 abstention.
The resolution strongly deplored Israel's occupation of the Arab territories since 1967, and expressed serious concern with the Israeli authorities' lack of cooperation with the UN Special Representative of the Secretary General.

2. 23 Jan. 1976. S/11940

Vote: 9 in favor, 1 veto (US), 3 abstentions.
The resolution called for Israeli withdrawal from the occupied Arab territories since 1967, and deplored Israel's refusal to implement relevant UN resolutions. It furthermore reaffirmed the Palestinian people's right to self determination and the right of return for Palestinian refugees.

4. 29 Jun. 1976. S/12119

Vote: 10 in favor, 1 veto (US), 4 abstentions.
The resolution affirmed the Palestinian people's right to self determination, the right of return, and the right to national independence.

5. 30 Apr. 1980. S/13911

Vote: 10 in favor, 1 veto (US), 4 abstentions.
The resolution affirmed the Palestinian right to establish an independent state, the right of return or compensation for loss of property for refugees not wishing to return, and Israeli withdrawal from the occupied Arab territories since 1967.

11. 1 Aug. 1983. S/15895

Vote: 13 in favor, 1 veto (US), 1 abstention.
The resolution called upon Israel to discontinue the establishment of new settlements in the Arab territories occupied since 1967, to dismantle existing settlements, and to adhere to the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. The resolution furthermore rejected Israeli deportations and transfers of Palestinian civilians, and condemned attacks against the Arab civilian population. The Security Council also called upon other states to refrain from giving Israel any assistance related to the settlements, and stated its intention to examine ways of securing the implementation of the resolution, in the event of Israeli non-compliance.

13. 29 Jan. 1986. S/17769

Vote: 13 in favor, 1 veto (US), 1 abstention.
The resolution strongly deplored Israeli refusal to abide earlier Security Council resolutions, and called upon Israel to comply with these resolutions, as well as, the norms of international law governing military occupation such as the Forth Geneva Convention. The Security Council also expressed deep concern with violations of the sanctity of the Haram Al-Sharif, and with Israeli measures aimed at altering the character of the occupied territories, including Jerusalem.

17. 9 Jun. 1989. S/20677

Vote: 14 in favor, 1 veto (US).
The resolution deplored the violations of the human rights of the Palestinian people, demanded that Israel would abstain from deporting Palestinian civilians for the occupied territories, and that it would ensure the safe return of those already deported. It also called upon Israel to comply with the Forth Geneva Convention, and requested that the Secretary General would give recommendations on measures guaranteeing compliance with the Convention, and the protection of Palestinian civilians in the occupied territories.

20. 17 May 1995. S/1995/394

Vote: 14 in favor, 1 veto (US).
The resolution confirmed that the Israeli expropriation of Palestinian land in East Jerusalem was invalid, and called upon Israel to refrain from such actions. It also expressed its support for the Middle East peace process and urged the parties to adhere to the accord agreed upon.

The 4 million Palestinians are scattered all over the West Bank, in Jordan, Syria and Labanon too. They hold legitimate deeds to their land and even keys to their houses, which are now occupied by Israelis. Until and unless they are given the right to return, Israel can only expect continued attacks as these displaced people fight to regain their homes.

North Korea does not need to resort to terorism (although Bush will disagree)..they have nuclear weapons and a strong army that has defeated the Americians in the Korean war...not to mention the support of China who is a nuclar power and holds the veto in the UN Security Council. The Palestinians
have no bargaining chip at all...terrorist activity becomes their only way of obtaining world attention. You cannot negotiate when there is such disparity of power..

Yes, Singapore has racial quotas...but you do not achieve a desirable racial mix by removing people from their homes and sending them to concentration camps. The population in present-day Israel in 1945 was about 60% Arabs, 30% Jews and 10% Christians...what is now? This is not re-dristribution of the population, it's ethnic cleansing.

TehJarVu SG

Someone sent me this:-

FROM THE RPIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL

July 31, 2006

Ladies and gentlemen, leaders of the world. I, the Prime Minister of Israel,
am speaking to you from Jerusalem in the face of the terrible pictures from
Kfar Kana. Any human heart, wherever it is, must sicken and recoil at the
sight of such pictures. There are no words of comfort that can mitigate the
enormity of this tragedy. Still, I am looking you straight in the eye and
telling you that the State of Israel will continue its military campaign in
Lebanon.

The Israel Defense Forces will continue to attack targets from which
missiles and Katyusha rockets are fired at hospitals, old age homes and
kindergartens in Israel. I have instructed the security forces and the IDF
to continue to hunt for the Katyusha stockpiles and launch sites from which
these savages are bombarding the State of Israel.

We will not hesitate, we will not apologize and we will not back off. If
they continue to launch missiles into Israel from Kfar Kana, we will
continue to bomb Kfar Kana. Today, tomorrow and the day after tomorrow.
Here, there and everywhere. The children of Kfar Kana could now be sleeping
peacefully in their homes, unmolested, had the agents of the devil not taken
over their land and turned the lives of our children into hell.

Ladies and gentlemen, it's time you understood: the Jewish state will no
longer be trampled upon. We will no longer allow anyone to exploit
population centers in order to bomb our citizens. No one will be able to
hide anymore behind women and children in order to kill our women and
children. This anarchy is over. You can condemn us, you can boycott us, you
can stop visiting us and, if necessary, we will stop visiting you.
�
A voice for six million citizens
�
�
Today I am serving as the voice of six million bombarded Israeli citizens
who serve as the voice of six million murdered Jews who were melted down to
dust and ashes by savages in Europe. In both cases, those responsible for
these evil acts were, and are, barbarians devoid of all humanity, who set
themselves one simple goal: to wipe the Jewish race off the face of the
earth, as Adolph Hitler said, or to wipe the State of Israel off the map, as
Mahmoud Ahmedinjad proclaims.

....cont.

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