Death Penalty Appeal

last SG · 2005-10-26T11:18:18+00:00

oh my god......still talking about this hanging stufff......get over it.......its centuries ago......look at the hanging of the pure aussie guy in malaysia l...

^spidee^ SG

From Yahoo news.

Singapore says Aussie got fair hearing

Singapore's top envoy says a bid for clemency by an Australian man on death row had been given fair hearing and the government could not make an exception.

Former Melbourne salesman, Nguyen Tuong Van, 25, was caught with 396 grams of heroin strapped to his body and in his hand luggage at Singapore's Changi airport in 2002.
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He is expected to be executed in the next four to six weeks.

Joseph Koh, Singapore's high commissioner to Australia, said Nguyen's plea for clemency had been dealt with fairly.

"He was given a fair hearing throughout the legal process and his appeal for clemency was carefully considered," Mr Koh said in a statement.

"After taking into account all factors, the president, on the advice of the cabinet, was unable to make an exception to Mr Nguyen's case.

"I understand that this decision is difficult for his family to accept.

"But the stand the government has taken on Mr Nguyen is consistent with the firm position that Singapore has taken on similar cases in the past involving Singaporeans and foreigners alike.

"Not everyone may agree with our view, but I hope they will understand Singapore's position."

Mr Koh said Singapore took a serious view of all drug offences.

"We weigh the rights of offenders against the rights of victims and the rights of the community to live and work in safety and security," he said.

"Our strict anti-drug laws send a clear message to drug syndicates not to conduct their criminal activities in Singapore or through Singapore.

"Our policy has been well-publicised and Mr Nguyen was well aware of it."

Nguyen, who had no previous criminal record, told Singapore's High Court he was lured by a Sydney-based drug syndicate to act as a drug mule to repay $25,000 in debts owed by his twin brother, Khoa.

LazerLordz SG

Canberra calls in a favour on Nguyen
From: By Michael McKenna
October 27, 2005

AUSTRALIA'S extradition of an accused killer to Singapore last month will be used in a last-ditch bid to save Melbourne drug-trafficker Van Tuong Nguyen from execution.

A local civil rights group will today hold a press conference in Singapore, detailing its legal case and accuse leaders of the island nation of imposing a "disproportionate and cruel" punishment on the 25-year-old salesman.
It marks only the second time in Singapore's 40-year history that a death penalty case has led to a public outcry.

The first case involved champion athlete Shanmugan Murugesu, described as a "Death Row confidant" of Nguyen. He was convicted of smuggling marijuana and hanged in May.

Civil rights group Think Centre will today detail the eleventh-hour legal effort as well as launch a public petition to spare him from the gallows.

The public protest is understood to have been delayed until a decision was announced by the Singapore Government over his plea for clemency, which was rejected last week despite appeals from the Howard Government. Nguyen is to be hanged within the next six weeks.

He was caught in transit at Singapore's Changi International Airport in December 2002 while flying from Cambodia to Melbourne with 393g of heroin strapped to his back and in his hand luggage.
Think Centre president Sinapan Samydori said the death penalty - mandatory for convicted murderers, traitors and drug-traffickers caught possessing more than 15g of heroin or 500g of marijuana - should not be applied to Nguyen.

"Death is disproportionate given the nature of his crime, his youth, lack of criminal history and his opportunity for rehabilitation," he said.

High-profile Singaporean lawyer M. Shavi, who will spearhead the new legal team for Nguyen, said a brief to President SR Nathan would rest heavily on the extradition from Australia of Michael McCrea.

The British businessman, originally from Nottingham, England, has been charged with killing his chauffeur Kho Nai Guan and the driver's girlfriend, Lan Ya Ming in January 2002.

The Howard Government agreed to extradite Mr McCrea after the Singapore Government pledged not to execute him.

Mr Shavi said he would argue a breach of the Singaporean constitution in extending clemency to one person, charged with a capital offence, while not showing the same sort of consideration to Nguyen.

"The Constitution guarantees equal treatment before the law and clearly that is not happening with these two people, one extradited from Australia and one an Australian national," he said.

dragg SG

extradition of the british?

he murdered 2 people but our govt promised them death sentence will not be imposed.

that is ridiculous.

LazerLordz SG

You want him in jail or running free?I'd take the former.

Look at it this way, I do not recognise the validity of the death penalty and so do a rising number of informed individuals.Furthermore, executing Nguyen is akin to letting the big guns go free as he would have died FOR them.

robertteh SG

Singapore government position in death penalty for drug runners is not convincing ih the face of international drug situation and drug control.

Death internationally is an extreme and barbaric penalty to be justified on exceptionally strong ground. As society civilises, it can be expected too that Death is imposed only as a sentence of last resort as is now seen happening in most countries with some countries abolishing death penalty except for the most serious crimes like murder or treason.

Many people got into drug running or trafficking out of desparations. Anyone can make a mistake as well. Usually the runners who are caught are not the perpetrators who are the real culprits deserving death penalty. It is quite unimaginably barbaric to punish anyone with death penalty just because he has been used or he was drawn into drug trafficking by his own vulnerability or weakness.

Do such people deserve death. Yes, they deserve serious punishment for even minor trafficking. Isn't this deterrent ? If not deterrent enough does it follow that only death is deterrent and there is no more drug trafficking today. We simply cannot reduce drug trafficking even if we impose death sentences on drug trafficking. The only way to prevent or eradicate drug trafficking is to go after the masterminds or perpetrators.

I feel that with death penalty many weaker or vulnerable people are still unwittingly falling into the death traps not for wilfulness but due to circumstances of weakness or vulnerability. If we cannot stop or substantially reduce drug trafficking even with death penalty then we are only being paranoid about drug trafficking to the extent of being barbaric - like killing whole family of the guilty in ancient China to please emperor's rage.

We should ask whether it is possible to substantially reduce drug trafficking by going after the runners who are mostly people falling into death trap due to circumstances not for wilful perpetration of drugs.

If there has been harshness in our drug laws, we should be prepared and open-minded to want to review it. When it comes a point of time we cannot change anything with continuing death penalty continuing death penalty for drug traffickers is simply paranoid.

Go and catch the drug kings and masterminds not all the runners. In any crimes of seriousness, they are best dealt with by punishing the masterminds behind not try to get more unwitting people or fall guys. For example if we want to stop copyright infringements, the best way to do it is to crack the mastermind not the minor copying by some students.

LazerLordz SG

Our CNB ain’t having the global reach of the DEA.But somehow we want to aspire to be no.1..and on the blood of the small fry.

sgdiehard SG

was he unlucky or those who got through were lucky? The Chinese say " shang de shan duo zhong yu hu." Go up the mountain often enough you will meet the tiger.
Decide if it is worthwhile doing it, luck will run out someday, we will continue to argue, but if it is your life, is there a better choice between life imprisonment and death penalty? Crying or Very sad

iveco SG

The mafia chiefs can always get another mule to take his place, since there are so many desperadoes out there. Executing Ngyuen does not solve the problem if we are not going to look at the root causes of his offence.

pikamaster SG

it might be a good thing if these people are driven out of business. Of course, we'll have to find new jobs for the retrenched workers from these industries though... Evil or Very Mad

sgdiehard SG

so what are the root causes of his offence? the mafia chiefs are supposed to be in the jungle in Myanmar, who should go and get them? singapore CNB ? Mr. Green How does ngyuen distribute his drugs if he managed to bring into australia? surely if he is not the door to door salesman.

First get all the australian to boycott cigarettes and drugs, get the australian government to smash the local drug syndicate, put the distributors in jails, and when there is no demand, there is no need to transit drug in singapore, then there will be no issue of sentencing any australian drug trafficker. Peace be to all of us.

LazerLordz SG

So in the interim, just because we dont have a rich heritage of legal and constitutional freedoms doesn't mean we have to be barbaric.

pikamaster SG

SGdiehard,

1) ok, I get your position, and I agree with that in principle. But of course alot of the points u mentioned could be called into question in practice. Twisted Evil

2) Ermm, r u in the correct thread? Rolling Eyes

3) My impression seems to be that you are mixing up 2 different issues here. And also rmb, the Ozs are quite a diverse population, even within a single state. Idea So some may understadn Singapore's laws, whilst others may not. It is worng to blanket-assume that al OZs are highly-educated and rich and so on. Idea

4) what is "necessary legal assistance"? The man convicted before him was refused the legal assistance he requested. The motive was clearly ignored, despite pleas from both the Australian Counsel and the accused's family. Your last sentence is a very callous sentence, especially sicne we neglect to consider that the Judges, including CJ (who is not known for being very fair), might have made mistakes in their judgement or analysis of evidence; even the police might have made mistakes; after all, everybody is human. Not to mention that the evidence of possession provided to convict for the mandatory sentence would be considered extremely flimsy evidence if used in the presence of a foreign court. Remember my analogy of the valentines' day gift in my previous post?

5) I'm talking about traffickers as a whole here, not just this particular case.

6) thx, I noe tt already. But I have an interesting question to ask you: if the latter happens to someone who is extremely gullible, (say a honkee), then do you think it just to take that person as guilty?

7) evidence of business calls, signed agreements, mysterious swiss bank accounts etc. But anyway, I just read a letter of clemency from ACADP which sorta mentioned he did have links with smuggling gangs.

But nonetheless, the fairness of the punishment can still be called into question, given his motive and the fact that he helped Australian police uncover captains of the drug smuggling ring he was working for. Refer to Think Centre for more details.

8 ) Law itself is determined by ideology of the government, so I don't see your logic. Btw, I believe robertteh discusses Democracy's relevance to Singapore in another thread, and many other threads do so besides. So you shouldn't be asking that question.

9) Why not? Think in terms of an MNC for drug-trafficking; Corporate politics IS very dirty indeed.

10) I believe we have discussed this point before. We should be dealing with the demand, not the supply; the nice piece of logic wou have written here proves that. As for why it had to transit through Singapore - well, erpz, blame it on the flightplan of the individual airlines; note that Ngyuen did not take a private jet.

11) Osama directly instigates people to kill because he wants certain people to be killed. The druglords on the other hand have the same excuse as the tobacco companies (n IMHO btw, it is suspected that many of them orignate from legal corporations in their host country e.g. Myanmar) : The death resulting from drug consumption is just an unpleasant side-effect, and they cannot be held responsible for it. Drug traffickers are emrely MLMs.

Osama, however, does not necessarily supply the bombs; he doesn't sell them. He teachess people how to make them, or gives them the bombs for free. He is not a corporate boss; he is a general (of a twisted sort, anw) of an Islamic Army. "Al Quaeda" means something like "People for Islam". Osama hence does not provide merchandise. What his followers do with teh bombs he supplies them - i.e. whether the bombs are sold or not - is irrelevant to this issue. On the other hand, the druglords are recruiting people merely to sell produced goods - they do not have fanatical followers the same way Al Quaeda has.

12) Why don't you shoot your own child instead, sicne after all s/he has the choice whether to buy the drug or not. After all, the peddler is not the one who consumes the drug; it is your child who does. Evil or Very Mad Mr. Green

the (humoured) pikamaster

robertteh SG

There are too many assumptions and theories embedded in our laws based on punishment versus cure. I wonder what will a panel of experts find of such morass of assumptions. Are the assumptions giving us results or benefits in nation building or are they merely expression of ancient Emporor ego to slaughter whole family to deter anyone from committing state crimes. Until we get a closer detached study done we will never grow up to develop our own richness of culture.

pikamaster SG

agree totally. Exclamation

Ito_^ SG

ya.. say so nice. how?[/b]

sgdiehard SG

Well, the laws have been in practice for donkeys yrs, question as you like, pls do something that can really make some difference.

What is not relevant?

I agree, there is this Mr. Stan Forbes from Tasmania who wrote to the Forum page of ST, Dont let excellent drug laws be undermined., in which he concluded, Do not be brow-beaten by a vocal minority in Australia (or any other country) into weakening your excellent drug laws. Interesting to know what is the vocal minority, some teenagers or those not so educated? Mr. Green

Was Ngyuen fighting alone? Did the OZ High Commission here offered any help? Why didnt they bring in some top notch OZ lawyers here, if they cant defend him in court, they could give advice to the defense lawyer, or at least they could follow the whole court proceeding and highlight anything ambiguous or biased, and anything that were hidden from them. Isnt this a good opportunity to scrutinize and put the Singapore judicial system to a test? What were the positive actions taken to help this man, by the OZ and ppl like you?? just write something and expect ppl to believe that our Judges are biased, they dont know how to make analysis, the police can be wrong? We were not born yesterday. Wink
400 kg of drug strapped round the body is a flimsy evidence? You forgot your glasses or you put on a pair of special glasses when you look at the matter. Twisted Evil

Circumstances differ from case to case. I talked about this case. Ngyuen was found with 400 kg of illegal drug, not panadol, not cough mixture, and that is the hard evidence for his conviction. What hard evidence do you need??

A honkee extremely gullible? pls explain. Nobody take just anybody as guilty, he is found guilty by the court of law, and whatever his ideology cannot be above the law of the land where he wants to practice his ideology. period.

The judge didn't think so, the prosecutor smiling and the defending lawyer remains speechless.

You brought up ideological stand, because the Australian Government has a strong ideological stand agaisnt the death penalty. Of course, die-hards like you might not be able to understand properly the phrase "ideological stand". Yes, I dont understand so I ask you, why ask robertteh?

Hehehe, what MNC are you talking about? The Australian MNC or the Burmese MNC?

Hahaha, blame it on the travel agencies who bought the flight that transit in Singapore, arrrhhe thought he could enjoy the SIA inflight movie but forgot the flight transits in Singaporeblame everybody, blame the metal detector, the security officer.pathetic.

Aiyo, obviously you have no idea about illegal drugs and their addictive nature, and got mixed up with tobacco and alcohol addiction. Tobacco is not illegal and it takes prolonged direct inhaling to be addictive and it may or may not kill. Illegal drugs such as Ecstasy pills, methamphetamines and don know what else are highly addictive, take one and you cant live without it, and without treatment, death is guaranteed. Death is an unpleasant side-effect?? Cant imagine anybody who views death as such can be serious in fighting to save life. Crying or Very sad

Osama promised his ppl martyrdom, drug lords offer money. Both with the same result, ppl got killed. If the different ways of taking life are regarded as a business, death is merely "an unpleasant side effect", I have nothing to say.

Talking about freedom of choice in the context of drug addiction is simply ignorant of the problem of drug addiction. I pity your children. Crying or Very sad

sgdiehard SG

What we have has been in practice for yrs. The main frame of the british common laws system remains, and singaporeans are well informed about the death penalty here and we know that nothing is perfect and there are rooms for improvement, we are certainly just looking for another alternative to satisfy some "liberals", take in system because it is used in oz. we want to see what are the better alternative. In the meantime, everybody is expected to respect the existing laws. period.

In the mean time, what are the OZ government doing?

dragg SG

extracted from straits times forum.

THERE appears to be a push by some people in Australia to pressure the Singapore Government into sparing a convicted Australian drug trafficker the death penalty because Australia does not have such a penalty.

Don't let excellent drug laws be undermined

This argument is both false and arrogant as the smuggler was convicted beyond any doubt of his crime and under Singapore law must hang.

Do not be brow-beaten by a vocal minority in Australia (or any other country) into weakening your excellent drug laws.

Stan Forbes
Tasmania, Australia

BadzMaro SG

Man.. the drug traffickers are stupid. Dun need traffic so much.. just hook up with the dealers at the respective country ho liaw ma! he he Laughing

ablazegal SG

I totally agree with you. Small crime, or big crime, a crime is a crime. The law was never meant to please everyone in the first place. Moreover, Singapore has always been known to have harsh laws - the death penalty - for drug trafficking/ possession. He took the chance, now pay the price.

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