Opposition candidates disappointing

last SG · 2006-03-13T11:37:24+00:00

Would you rather have the kind of taxi services in China and Philippines when you're most likely to be rip off, verbally abused and may not even reach anywhe...

anonymouscoward SG

Absolutely right. A minor correction though. I'm not a PAP supporter and I've seen worse days (not better days) in the past.

snow leopard SG

Originally posted by anonymouscoward:

Please don't insult the black liberation by comparing what we have here and their suffering. You probably know nuts about suffering or you won't be spewing nonsense here.

i am not insulting the black liberation. i am insulting you for thinking along the lines of slave owners who wouldn't care two cents about the plights of the common people and social inequality. if i am in no position to brand you, then why are you in the position to say i know nuts and spewing nonsense? only you can brand others, others cannot brand you. is that the way you communicate here? is that the way the govt deals with its people?

Hypocrisy? You are in no position to brand me that when all you care about is yourself and your dream of democracy. Have you spare a thought for others who have even more to loose with a shaky political environment?

the moment you brand someone by calling him names, you jolly well accept that you would be branded as well. the fact that you called me names first, gives you no position to tell me off and i will brand you in whatever way i deem fit supported by revelations from your own statements.

you have not answered my question yet. 2 out of 81 seats. where is your so-called shakiness? are you trying to deceive people to think that 2 out of 81 seats to the opposition would result in a shaky environment? have you spared a thought for others who would forever be led by their noses when there is no alternative representation to lend them their voices?

Really? I really sounded like your blaming the government for not have a comfortable right on the MRT or your ability to buy a car.

you have twisted the purpose of my arguments. in the first place, i did not start this "mini" discussion. i merely responded to what i felt were inaccurate and unfair statements by a fellow forumer. while i may be convicted in my arguments, the volume of this discussion is largely in response to what sounded like your insistence that the govt has provided us with the best transportation system when in actual fact our so-called 'world class transportation' is really no different from those of other countries and our (not just mine) right to own a car has been taken away from us to fill govt coffers to the brim.

Me too.. if I have to deal with craps like you.

but only a crap would choose to deal with another crap.

Like I said, you are in position and you know nuts about me to be making this accusation.

i am in every position to make inferences from your statements and to make logical conclusions (not accusations).

Again, do not insult me and my concern for the general public. You have no right and is in no position to do so. I am concern and I do believe there is more the government can do for the public. But I'm also thankful for what we have now.

i am not insulting you. i am merely returning you in kind what you have showered on me first. if i have no right and in no position, then what gives you the right and the position to insult me in the first place? you concerned? at first i thought you might be, but after all your crap i really think you're nothing but a PAP crony.

I think I've said and read enough. Let the GE results speak for themselves.

the GE is merely a wayang show that does nothing and changes nothing ... if it speaks, it speaks the same tune year on year, of what we don't have and what we will never have.

SnowFlag SG

A quote from somewhere:

"For government, by its nature, tends to oppress. And government, without a watchdog, would soon oppress the people it was created to serve"

snow leopard SG

imminent? or do you mean remote? in 2001 they contested 55 seats which is about the same number this time and they only got two seats. in 1997 they contested 36 seats and also got only two seats. even in their most successful 1991 where they contested 40 seats they merely got 4 seats. year after year they can't even get a handful of seats, what imminence are you talking about?

so when you say "however slim that chance maybe", you are betraying yourself and acknowledging the fact that the chance is indeed very slim.

ObviousMan SG

Better or worse is itself relative.
If you ask, most singaporeans will say that they have progressed much from the 60's. But is it better to be poor but have hope working for a better future or rich but looking forward to a bleak future?

The point i am driving is that nowadays, even the young look to the the future with dread. And the people in ivory towers seem oblivious to the real economy and keep generating excellent data that shows otherwise.

Off-topic, how anonymous can you get by showing your email in your profile?

snow leopard SG

your first statement says it all. the average person on the street does not understand democracy. he is only concerned that there is bread on the table and television to watch. before you can have the checks and balances, you first need to get them to vote for you and unless you pitch your offer in terms of bread and butter, they will not understand you, least of all vote for you.

that is something the PAP has always understood ...

snow leopard SG

what i meant was this. a significant proportion of the older generation are hawkers and taxi drivers who are probably pissed with the govt for screwing up their lives so more of them would vote for the opposition.

in contrast, the younger generation are better educated and a significant proportion of them are employed by govt agencies or GLCs. this group will continue to swell in numbers and will vote for PAP for the simple reason that they are voting for their own pay checks.

king108 SG

I think Singaporean are mature enough to decide what they want for themselve this coming election. The voters now are mostly better educated. That's should be true.

We should show our respect for all those candidates offering to serve us for the next five years regardless where they from,who they are and what title they hold. At least they commited $13000 and speak times rallying and ground works etc.

Just quote, the chinese saying " As long as a cat can catches mouse, why brother it's white or black, it's good".

Finally, decide yourself what you wanted in your life.

Rexdriver SG

Nobody believes that true democracy exists, but a rational man would rather place his faith on a functional system of governance that seeks to achieve democracy than on the integrity of a bunch of self-proclaimed 'junzi'.

Sometimes, you have to make sacrifices to come closer to an ideal, to achieve intangibles, or just to make a statement. But we in Singapore are only concerned about the food on the table.

snow leopard SG

[quoteOriginally posted by anonymouscoward:

I'm someone who's relatistic enough to know that true democracy doesn't exist; and rational enough to know even if it does, it'll not put food on the table.

such a mentality can only stem from an assumtion, that when the PAP is no longer around, EDB will collapse. EDB will cease to function and no longer bring in investments. SIA will stop flying and all pilots would suddenly resign and become taxi drivers. police will stop protecting citizens and our citizen soldiers (which is really ourselves) will cease to carry out our NS duties. how realistic is that assumption? since it is not realistic, then an alternative govt doesn't mean no food on the table.

It's a good-to-have but I'll choose an efficient and effective government over one filled with chimps and idiots.
[/quote]

this is a condescending statement on luminary oppositions like Low Thia Kiang, Chiam See Tong and Jayeratnam. did the PAP start off with impressive candidates in its lineup? there were only four 'giants' in the founding team that gradually grew bigger and stronger. similarly, given the opportunity and the time, "chimps" will evolve into "humans".

snow leopard SG

Originally posted by anonymouscoward:

I'm someone who's relatistic enough to know that true democracy doesn't exist; and rational enough to know even if it does, it'll not put food on the table.

such a mentality can only stem from an assumption, that when the PAP is no longer around, EDB will collapse. EDB will cease to function and no longer bring in investments. SIA will stop flying and all pilots would suddenly resign and become taxi drivers. police will stop protecting citizens and our citizen soldiers (which is really ourselves) will cease to carry out our NS duties. how realistic is that assumption? since it is not realistic, then an alternative govt doesn't mean no food on the table.

It's a good-to-have but I'll choose an efficient and effective government over one filled with chimps and idiots.

this is a condescending statement on luminary oppositions like Low Thia Kiang, Chiam See Tong and Jayeratnam. did the PAP start off with impressive candidates in its lineup? there were only four 'giants' in the founding team that gradually grew bigger and stronger. similarly, given the opportunity and the time, "chimps" will evolve into "humans".

oxford mushroom SG

Does democracy equate prosperity?

Frankly, I think if the Opposition can attract a successful entrepreneur like Li Ka Shing to join, they will have a good chance...he's got a good track record of making making for his company..

king108 SG

Frankly speaking, I doubted your understanding of the requirement of people server. Basically we are giving them chance and paying at a fee for them to create a better country and possible some wealth.

You believed someone when his wife grave was broken into.. Heard about the telco share story..Sad to say the next moment I will only see that you are dry.

Rexdriver SG

So running a country is just about making money? Living a life is just about making money?

king108 SG

The part that running a country is just about making "money" should be related to: allow me to quote: to achieve happiness, prosperity and progress for our nation. (As stated by our respectable late co-founder of Singapore, Mr S Rajaratnam.

It's is for the nation. No just big pocket for you or anyone that runs a country.

Living a commoner's life in Singapore, priority is still making money in order to survive. With one sufficient, he can then contribute to the nation development. Do you agree?. Cool

snow leopard SG

democracy may or may not equate to prosperity but the fact remains that the most prosperous nations like USA are also the most democractic. in fact, it is in a very democratic city like Hong Kong that entrepreneurs like Li Ka Shing could fluorish.

successful entrepreneurs here would not join the opposition because the moment they do that, for all you know, their licence to own and do business may be revoked or unecessary obstacles imposed on them.

my opinion is this. when an economy has just begun, when the base is low and the jobs being performed are simple and easy to manage, then democracy probably wouldn't be as essential and a centrally planned economy may suffice.

however, when the economy approaches maturity, when the tasks performed are no longer simple and easily directed, the lack of democracy would hinder the continued progress of the economy or even dampen it.

snow leopard SG

Originally posted by king108:

The part that running a country is just about making "money" should be related to: allow me to quote: [b]to achieve happiness, prosperity and progress for our nation. (As stated by our respectable late co-founder of Singapore, Mr S Rajaratnam.

It's is for the nation. No just big pocket for you or anyone that runs a country.

Living a commoner's life in Singapore, priority is still making money in order to survive. With one sufficient, he can then contribute to the nation development. Do you agree?. Cool

[/b]

i think you misunderstood rex. he is saying there is more to life than just making money be it for self, family or nation. that money is the vehicle to happiness and not happiness itself.

in any case, we also need to correctly interpret Mr Rajaratnam's words. what he means is that we should all make a good living so that we can all progress and prosper together.

just imagine, the govt needs to take over your home in order to build a new road. he gives you $1 as compensation. would you say "thank you very much i'm really happy this is for progress of the nation". if the govt does that to every other person, in the name of progress for the nation, then doesn't that become progress for the govt at the people's expense? sounds more like communist china isn't it?

king108 SG

Fellow Rex, forgive me as I may have misinterpreted your statements. There are many types of businessman and/or entreprener. We need those that can create wealth, stable job opportunities, sharing wealth and care more for the society and no individual's pocket.

Money is the vehicle to solve many problems, I would not said it is the happiness. But without money here, it is very stressful. Unfortunately, one had to face the real singapore, that is no money, no life. Unlike other countries, where there are still places that you still can survive with the need of some money. (depends on individual's requirements, material needs and expectation).

Refering to Mr Rajaratnam's penned pledge. Read my statement properly, it mean exactly what you mentioned.

I would not wanted to comment on the resettlement issues. My house was moved while I was away from singapore. When I came back, I found myself paying for a HDB flat. (No in the right position for me to comment because I still quite profitable even if I sold this flat later). I don't believe in property is for investment, angmo don't do that. That why you don't see them carrying their door along when they are outside (more carefree life style).

A flat to me is actually for my shelter needs only and nothing else. A HDB flat only a lease to you, 60 years may be you will be relocated again. What there to be proud of having a 5 rms or even exec units. (only unless it landed and/or freehold 999)

Your $1 compensation, is just like saying good morning to Mr Robin Hood. I don't want to spell it out (You know it). Don't bleed over this, it will only made you more miserable. Convert your misery into strength.

I had greeted Mr Robin Hood in a Monday morning few years back. I found myself 90% poorer after that. I think a lot of them who encountered what I encountered may have gone Heaven.

Cheer

ObviousMan SG

Why is anonymouscoward?
MIA since his last post, but came in to edit his profile.
Taking a walk in cyberspace park with the Internet Security Dogs?

Now got king108 hijack your thread --- a clone?

Just want to say this:
It is your right to remain anonymous, it is also your right to remain coward.
It is very easy to be an armchair critic, but it takes courage to be out there contesting. Just think what happened to those who contested in Cheng San.

Rexdriver SG

I am not saying that money is not essential. Unfortunately, under the capitalist system, money is important. But there must still be a balance, and an understanding that politics goes far beyond economics. Politics governs your way of life, and especially in Singapore, your ability to think and to come to your own opinions. There are myriad other important matters that politics shape as well.

If you want to fight for these other intangible aspects of life, then what I am suggesting is that a person should vote for the opposition even if it is simply for the sake of having one - because it is symbolic, and because without a symbol of dissent, the incumbent can only become complacent and even more authoritarian (on this point, my view is that the incumbent has become less authoritarian over the many years, but primarily for reasons other than domestic politics).

We now have more qualified and credible members of the opposition standing for elections. They may not be the best brains, but at least they have heart. Why should we not give them a chance? Is there so much to lose in reality or is it just an irrational fear of economic collapse? And there is so much to gain...

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