Human right group. Shut up for our death penalty system !

last SG · 2005-05-11T14:44:58+00:00

Its stupid to KILL someone over 600 gram of drugs..

stupidissmart SG

Inhumane to ban smoking?Don't make me laugh,pls.

Wat so funny about tat statement ?

What u said is right.But drug addicts take drug at their own free will,isn't it?

So ? Then might as well sell firearms in singapore since both buyer and seller transact at their own will isn't it ?

I say the govt is double standard because selling cigarettes is legal while drug traffickers get hang.What i want to stress is the punishment for drug trafficker is not only inhumane but also too heavy for the crime.

I don't see much double standard here. As said much before selling drugs and selling cigerrettes is much like driving at 50km and 150km on the road

Both selling cigarettees & drug traficking are motivated by money.Both cause harm to cosumers.One is legal and the other get hang.Still no inconsistency of principle?

Might as well say selling ice cream is legal while selling drugs is not. I mean your point to compare with cigerrettes is already a bad point to start off with

There are many drug addicts in S'pore.PAP govt should be blamed for such a situation.Perhaps the PM & ministers concerned should be hang for their faults (since they support death penalty).Fortunately i don't support death penalty,So they shoud resign instead

Statistically speaking, the number of drug addict in singapore is much lesser compared with other countries. Hence if going by your line of thinking, then we should conclude the gov is doing a good job.

A govt can enact a law that all thieves should be chopped off their hands.Then when some thieves' hands are chopped off as punishments,the govt would say they know the law and yet they commit the crime so it is not fault of the govt.

Theives r theives, kidnappers r kidnapers, murderers r murderers, drug traffickers r drug traffickers.Different crimes deserve different treatment. It is not uncommon to have death penalty for drug traffickers in many countries. If u say it is the gov fault, then u r condemning perhaps most of the countries leaders.

dragg SG

you are stretching your argument.

we dont have such laws.

what is the point of bringing into the argument something hypothetical?

LazerLordz SG

Then the informed few must turn the tide of opinion.This is possible in a norma,democratic state.But here, trying to influence the voters only gets you trumped up on murky charges, unless you happen to wear white.

This is not ethical.

PRP SG

When there is a bad or wrong law, then one can't just blame the offenders but also but look at the law itself.That is the point i wanted to make with that analogy.

stupidissmart SG

When there is a bad or wrong law, then one can't just blame the offenders but also but look at the law itself.That is the point i wanted to make with that analogy.

It may be obvious tat cutting off of hands is cruel, but hanging murderers and drug trafficker, to much people, is the right law to have. There is again nothing wrong with tis law

PRP SG

Cutting off hand is cruel,so is caning a person bleeding.

Killing a person is not cruel?Stupidissmart, your sense is different from common ppl.

PRP SG

My main arguments

Firstly, death penalty is inhumane.Many advanced countries have abolished such punishment.S'pore has become an advanced country.We should similarily follow.

Secondly,drug traffickers do not intentionally want to kill anyone.They commit the crime for money and the addicts buy drugs voluntarily and most of them don't die after taking drug.So to use death penalty on drug traffickers is wrong under the principle of law.

iveco SG

What if a relative of yours was framed for murder, executed and evidence absolving him of all involvement shows up 10 years later? WHat are you gonna do? Rolling Eyes

SOmetimes, in our quest to get justice done, we must avoid miscarriages of justice. THis is worse than the crime itself.

stupidissmart SG

Cutting off hand is cruel,so is caning a person bleeding.

Killing a person is not cruel?Stupidissmart, your sense is different from common ppl.

I never say it is not cruel. i was saying it was necessary. U think jailing a person is not cruel ? He have wasted his years in his limited life and tat probably is a much cruel act than caning. All punishments r curel, otherwise everyone will perform cruelty to other people.

Firstly, death penalty is inhumane.Many advanced countries have abolished such punishment.S'pore has become an advanced country.We should similarily follow.

Many advanced countries have not abolish the death penalty as well. Moreover every country have a different views, different cultures and different needs. We shouldn't just follow blindly

Secondly,drug traffickers do not intentionally want to kill anyone.They commit the crime for money and the addicts buy drugs voluntarily and most of them don't die after taking drug.So to use death penalty on drug traffickers is wrong under the principle of law.

Drug trafficker intentionally wanted people to become drug addicts and tat is enough reason to kill them. If there is no drug trafficker, then there wouldn't be drug abuser and lives of the society will be protected. To use the death penalty to protect society is right and just and fulfil wat a law should do, protect the innocent.

What if a relative of yours was framed for murder, executed and evidence absolving him of all involvement shows up 10 years later? WHat are you gonna do?

Wat if ? There is a lot of wat if. Wat if your relative get to be gang raped and murdered and the murderer get away with 5 years of jail ? Wat if your son who is a scholar but goes to the drug and becoem a drug abuser. In his desperation for money, he use a knife and points at your wife for money. I am sorry man, ther r mistakes but we still have to mete out justice if required

PRP SG

Studpidissmart,

U are absolutely wrong to say all punishments are cruel.Is fine cruel?Some ppl think imprisonment is nothing because prisoners get free lodging & food.

I didn't advocate following developed countries blindly.I gave reasons why death penalty should be abolished.

The drug traffickers don't intentionally want ppl to take drug.They commited the crime due to money.Even when there are drug,ppl can choose not to take them.

So your rebutals are invalid.

Poopie-Head SG

I have to agree with you. there are many cases of wrong judgements, what makes u think our judiciary system is infallible? granted, the percentage is very low but it is an undeniable fact that mistakes were made.

in the news headline recently, there was another man who was finally released after so many years in jail becoz he was wrongfully sentenced to murder. The poor man will probably have much difficulty trying to fit back into the society, but my point is he would be hanged according to SG law.

Regarding drug trafficking, i have heard so many stories about drug traffickers slipping the drugs into some innocent traveller's bags at the customs, and planning to retrieve the drugs after the checks. These stories may be just hearsay, but u must admit that it is fairly easy for the unsuspecting traveller to fall prey. So in this case, the innocent guy WILL BE hanged.

I understand the fact drugs will cause many social problems, but IMHO the act of drug trafficking does not warrant a death penalty. The act itself is no where near as violent as murder, road rage, etc. If u want to talk about the social problems that drug addicts cause, and punishment should be meted out to people who bring in drugs, then in the same sense shouldnt the people who bring in gambling dens, aka IRs Rolling Eyes , be brought to the gallows too?

I strongly believe that no one has the right to take another's life.

stupidissmart SG

Studpidissmart,

U are absolutely wrong to say all punishments are cruel.Is fine cruel?Some ppl think imprisonment is nothing because prisoners get free lodging & food.

Is fine cruel ? Hmm.. let me think, for throwing rubbish on the floor I get a $500 fine. Yes it is cruel. Free lodging and food ? Then u go and stay in prison lah

I didn't advocate following developed countries blindly.I gave reasons why death penalty should be abolished.

Wat is the reason u gave ? because we sell cigerrettes ?

The drug traffickers don't intentionally want ppl to take drug.They commited the crime due to money.Even when there are drug,ppl can choose not to take them.

They intentionally knew that the drugs they sell is gonna make people addicted. We don't care wat is his motive, as long as he commit the act he is guilty of it. So u say people who earns money by murdering others deserved to be freed ?

So your rebutals are invalid.

stupidissmart SG

We have to mete out punishment. Otherwise can u suggest a better way to manage the society ? Men r selfish, some of them do nto care for other people and the only way to control them is the fear of punishment

in the news headline recently, there was another man who was finally released after so many years in jail becoz he was wrongfully sentenced to murder. The poor man will probably have much difficulty trying to fit back into the society, but my point is he would be hanged according to SG law.

If he was in certain states in america, he will be hanged as well. The harm for jailing people has already been committed

Regarding drug trafficking, i have heard so many stories about drug traffickers slipping the drugs into some innocent traveller's bags at the customs, and planning to retrieve the drugs after the checks. These stories may be just hearsay, but u must admit that it is fairly easy for the unsuspecting traveller to fall prey. So in this case, the innocent guy WILL BE hanged.

If talking about framing someone else, any crimes can be framed to another person. U can frame another of murder if u want to. And because there is a possibility of framing people, we let all offenders off easily ?

I understand the fact drugs will cause many social problems, but IMHO the act of drug trafficking does not warrant a death penalty. The act itself is no where near as violent as murder, road rage, etc. If u want to talk about the social problems that drug addicts cause, and punishment should be meted out to people who bring in drugs, then in the same sense shouldnt the people who bring in gambling dens, aka IRs , be brought to the gallows too?

IMHO, drug trafficker do deserve the death penalty as the social impact is too great. Drugs is a potential catalyst for further future "violent" acts. Drug abusers in their desperation may resort to robbery etc. And finally talking about IR, I believe it is a topic for another thread.

I strongly believe that no one has the right to take another's life.

However there r people who believe tat death penalty is necessary, such as me myself.

PRP SG

Stupidissmart,
According to u, fine is cruel.Banning cigarettes is inhumane.But u support death penalty.Stupid is smart,indeed!

iveco SG

Of course stupid has to be smart for this person. Anyone in the right frame of mind wouldn't like to see someone hang because he had been framed. Laughing

PRP SG

Pls take note: If there is no demands,there is no drug traffickers.So the motive of drug traffickers does matter when discussing in this issue.

Drug traffickers murder ppl?Who force ppl to take drug?Is capital punishment murder?

stupidissmart SG

According to u, fine is cruel.Banning cigarettes is inhumane.But u support death penalty.Stupid is smart,indeed!

I never say tat hanging is not cruel Rolling Eyes Mt point is always as such, punishment need to be cruel. Death penalty is simply necessary.

Of course stupid has to be smart for this person. Anyone in the right frame of mind wouldn't like to see someone hang because he had been framed

I wouldn't like to if he is really frame. But then there is no choice if u don't know. U wanna free all criminals so no one is a victim of being framed ?

Pls take note: If there is no demands,there is no drug traffickers.So the motive of drug traffickers does matter when discussing in this issue.

If there is no drugs here, then there wouldn't be drug abuser and no demand too

Drug traffickers murder ppl?Who force ppl to take drug?Is capital punishment murder?

U know bomb makers doesn't kill people as well. They just provide bombs and it is the people who use them who r the murderers. SO we make bomb making legal ? Bomb should be banned, and so should drugs. SO if u understand why bomb making is illegal, than u understand why drugs should be as well.

Poopie-Head SG

I agree that there should be punishment or segregation (imprisonment) for people who bring harm or are dangerous to the society. However, is death penalty justifiable? Where do we draw the line?

Are you saying that to deter and lower the crime rate, it is justifiable to kill another man? A murderer is to be punished for killing another man, so our supposedly 'fair' judiciary system now kills this murderer? Doesnt it make the system a murderer too? Like i said before, it is an undeniable fact that from time to time some people were wrongfully judged, no matter how small the percentage. Are you also saying that it is ok to risk the mistake of hanging these innocent people just so you can scare off potential offenders?

ning4 ke3 sha1 cuo1 bu4 ke3 fang4 guo4 ?
chinese saying: Rather kill all people wrongfully than to let one slip off?

Why I am totally against death penalty is not only because I believe that no person has the right to take another's life, but also that such a punishment is irreversible in the event of a mistake. There is no way that i can agree to the above chinese saying, it is meant to describe people who are ruthless, irresponsible and self-centered.

If he was in certain states in america, he will be hanged as well. The harm for jailing people has already been committed

I am against death sentence, be it SG or USA. As for the wrongfully sentenced, the harm is already done, true, at least he gets to live the rest of his life as a free man. Would it be better if he were dead and then found innocent?

Yes, we can be framed for anything. I'm just giving a very good example of how easily it can be done in the case of drug trafficking which carries a death sentence in SG.

Also, I'm not saying we should let offenders off easily, I'm not talking about how heavy or light a sentence should be. In this case, I am talking about the possibility of a mistake in pronouncing an innocent person as guilty, and to make it worse the possibility of a death sentence for an innocent person.

By the way, in your opinion what's a light punishment and what's too heavy? Why not just have death sentence for every crime so that we can achieve the effect of "scaring off" potential offenders? Then theoretically we'll have a peaceful and crimeless state isn't it? Rolling Eyes

Nope it is not off-topic. IRs or gambling dens are similar in the effect of causing gambling addicts to commit crimes, including 'violent acts'. So in this sense, isn't gambling den aka casino or IRs operators (chose watever name u like Rolling Eyes ) equally as guilty as the drug traffickers by being the channel that provides the addiction, resulting in social problems caused by the addicts? Why does the drug trafficker gets death penalty while the casino operators get gahmen approved licences to provide services for promoting the vice?

However there r people who believe tat death penalty is necessary, such as me myself.

That is why we still have a long way to go to convince people that life is precious and no one has the right to take that away from anyone else. Wink

stupidissmart SG

The system jails another for restricting a person free will by locking in a room. So the system becomes the system tat restrict a person free will himself as well ? The system canes another for hurting a person in a fight, so the system become the person who assault the offender himself ? As said before, it is punishment, and they r meant to strike fear even among adults. There is a difference between breaking the law, being guilty first, causing harm to society and meting out justice to protect the innocent, deter potential offenders and defend the innocent.

There r always cases tat people get punished for an offence they never do, but then if u r the judiciary system, wat should u gonna do ? We can't let everyone be freed isn't it ? It is sad to punish an innocent person but there is no better solution. If u do not want to punish the innocent, the only way is to free all criminals, which obviously is worst off for the society

I hope u understand tat punishment is necessary isn't it ? Now if we do not have the death penalty, the possible greatest punishment is simply lifeterm imprisonment. Is tat enough to deter people from committing serious crimes ? There r many people who don't mind jail sentence, especially people who had lived in jail for a long time before being released. They in fact may yearn to go back to jail, a system where they r already used to. Wat is going to stop them from committing offences such as bank robbery, murder, drug trafficking or acts of terrorism ? Secondly, if a person hate another very deeply and killed him. Is tat fair for the innocent person who was murdered ? The innocent gets a heavier punishment than the guilty.

ning4 ke3 sha1 cuo1 bu4 ke3 fang4 guo4 ?
chinese saying: Rather kill all people wrongfully than to let one slip off?

I rather use the chinese saying to explain the death penalty

Ren zai jiang hu shen bu you zi

Chinese saying: When a men works in society, they cannot afford to be idealistic and have little choices in the things they do

Men have to be realistic, even making decisions tat may cause harm to a minority to protect the majority. There is no way a justice system can be removed. There is no way to be sure all prosecuted r not innocent. There r no better options. So wat to do ? Free all criminals ?

Why I am totally against death penalty is not only because I believe that no person has the right to take another's life, but also that such a punishment is irreversible in the event of a mistake. There is no way that i can agree to the above chinese saying, it is meant to describe people who are ruthless, irresponsible and self-centered.

Every punishment r irreversible. But we cannot not mete out justice.

The harm is still already done to tis individual. For caning, the process is irreversible as well. The best way is to make processes tat prove an individual is innocent or guilty, not enacting punishment which require time to consume

Yes, we can be framed for anything. I'm just giving a very good example of how easily it can be done in the case of drug trafficking which carries a death sentence in SG.

U can push the charge of murder easily to another as well. But wat to do ? Free all drug traffickers ?

Also, I'm not saying we should let offenders off easily, I'm not talking about how heavy or light a sentence should be. In this case, I am talking about the possibility of a mistake in pronouncing an innocent person as guilty, and to make it worse the possibility of a death sentence for an innocent person.

By the way, in your opinion what's a light punishment and what's too heavy? Why not just have death sentence for every crime so that we can achieve the effect of "scaring off" potential offenders? Then theoretically we'll have a peaceful and crimeless state isn't it?

How ? Wat is the right sentence to sacre off potential offenders and serve out justice ? Tis sentence will by itself again be cruel as well isn't it. Tis is not an ideal world.

Nope it is not off-topic. IRs or gambling dens are similar in the effect of causing gambling addicts to commit crimes, including 'violent acts'. So in this sense, isn't gambling den aka casino or IRs operators (chose watever name u like ) equally as guilty as the drug traffickers by being the channel that provides the addiction, resulting in social problems caused by the addicts? Why does the drug trafficker gets death penalty while the casino operators get gahmen approved licences to provide services for promoting the vice?

For drugs, the person who takes it DEFINITELY have harm done to his body. For casino, only very few people who gambles becomes an addict and commit crimes. Drugs is also physically addicitive, while gambling is at most mental, making it easier to kick or not be addicted. If u look at the law, even illegal casino operators do not get death penalty when they r caught since the harm, as deemed by the judiciary system throughout the world, agree tat the potential harm of casino is much lesser than drugs. It is different.

That is why we still have a long way to go to convince people that life is precious and no one has the right to take that away from anyone else.

Tat is why a harsh punishment is necessary to "convince" people from not committing out heavy offences. Implementing death penalty to save more lives numerically r more meaningful

PRP SG

U say capital punishment is absolutely necessary.Why can some advanced countries abolish it?

If S'pore has no drug,drug addicts can still take drug in foreign countries such as JB.Even with capital punishment,there are still drug traffickers.So the punishemnt is really not effective.

Why don't u answer the question:Is death penalty a murder?

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