Taiwan-China Issue

last SG · 2005-03-29T03:15:04+00:00

Originally posted by sting_760: [quote]Originally posted by sting_760: [b][quote]Originally posted by Blueray: [b] I am living in China right now. . [quote]...

sgdiehard SG

No dispute: "Taiwan is indeed as de facto independent state ", known as ROC.

No divide in the opinion: "It is recognition of one China, PRC or ROC, .... "

"competing claims of sovereignty over Taiwan?" : It is between ROC and PRC, not PRC and ROT.

polau SG

This may be out of topic,

But do you guys aware of a principally china's forum?
There's this guy there called Yun, who happened to be a Singaporean Hainanese though he calimed himself as Shanghaiese.

Anyway just to take note that this guy actually support what he said.

Gun SG

And that is why Beijing is giving KMT party member a red-carpet welcome since they last met in 1949.

If this visit help provide peaceful dialog between the 2 sides & reduce regional tension, why then US so far has yet to indicate its welcome to this historic visit to China ?

sgdiehard SG

The US does not want to see a united China. Few years ago, an american actually said to me that China should be like the Soviet Union, and provinces like Guangzhou should be independent together with HK, because Guangzhou chinese are so "different" from the northern chinese.

pearlie27 SG

Rolling Eyes your logic is beyond me!

sgdiehard SG

This is not logic, this is the reality. ROC and PRC exist but ROT does not. If you know the history of china (since becoming a republic), you will understand what it means.

pearlie27 SG

Don't assume that u're the only one who knows China history.

I somehow agree with lotus999 that your english needs some working.

crazyazn SG

That is true . There is no ROT only ROC.

They prefer to call themselves Taiwanese in order to differentiate themselves from the Mainlanders. You can say you are Singaporean Chinese, Malaysian Chinese e.t.c. , but The people here cannot say I am Chinese from China (People automatically assume that they mean the PRC)- The Republic of China which is different from The People;s Republic of China e.t.c. e.t.c. e.t.c. People get tired of telling the "story" everytime!!

It is very confusing for most people and for the Immigration officials of Many Countries. PRC "Chinese" have different requirements for Immigration e.t.c. Taiwanese i.e. ROC Nationals on the other hand are welcome in most countries.

sgdiehard SG

Of course, many people know china history, but you are not one of them.

good english does not help you understand china history, because china history is not written in english.

crazyazn SG

I mentioned in an earlier post, it is not really Historic. KMT and CCP meeting is nothing new. Just that Lien as Chairman is going over to Meet Hu. When the Leaders of the Two Ruling Parties on either sides of the Straits meet, that will be Historic.

The "Red Carpet" is just games played by the PRC. The CCP used to hate the KMT and the KMT used to hate the CCP equally before the Year 2000. Now they got a common adversary. The KMT after having lost twice had no place to turn.You did not see them making such "wonderful" gestures when they were in power for 50+ years. They were staunch Anti PRC and staunch Anti Communist.

The PRC on the other hand is having fun trying to reduce Chen's influence by inviting the Opposition Leadership into the PRC and giving them First Class treatment that they dont get at home.

This has got nothing to do with the US.The Taiwanese people will not unify under the CCP by accepting the One China Policy.

Everyone calls for the return to the 1992 consensus, yet everyone only follows the Interpretation of the OCP as stated by the PRC, No one follows the Intepretation of the OCP as stated by the ROC. You first have to accept both Intpretations openly eofore you can move forward ,That will be difficult as the two interpretations are as different as the two sides of a coin.

"The "1992 Consensus" refers to an agreement reached by the two sides in 1992 in Hong Kong, in which each side agreed to its own interpretation of the one-China principle. "

crazyazn SG

Here is something you must have read in the news papers last year:Sept 2004.
C P C vows to uphold Marxism as guiding ideology .
http://www.beijingportal.com.cn/7838/2004/09/27/[email protected]

How many of the Taiwanese "immigrants" Have sold out their Holdings here and moved to the PRC with their families and given up their Passports?? They are not moving there because they hate Taiwan or Love the PRC,It's just business. People are only moving part of their business.Most of them still have the Head Offices here in Taiwan and the RnD Depts are also here.

Japanese,Koreans ,Singaporeans have also done the same in droves . Not blaming Ah Bian for that too are you??

Taiwan's trade surplus if not really accurate.Taiwan ships out raw material and components to the PRC. Taiwan is not shipping finished goods for the PRC market. It is assembled there and shipped out of the PRC to a third country WITHOUT it coming back here for reshipment therefore showing a surplus. The difference is shown elsewhere in the PRC books as an export figure for the PRC. Taiwanese factories employ more than 12 million Mainlanders.

I mentioned the consensus in another post.

The ROC constitution is outdated , created by the KMT , that reallly has to be changed in order to reflect the current situation. Read the 1991 ammendment to the Constitution: Everyone conveniently seems to forget to read that when talking about the ROC constitution.
"In the 1991 constitutional amendment, Article 10 of the Additional Articles (now Article 11) limits the area covered by the Constitution to that of the Taiwan area, and recognizes the legitimacy of the rule of the People's Republic of China on the Chinese mainland."

The ROC is not guilty of trying to Separate!!! The PRC separated from the ROC in 1949 when the changed the name of the terrority they held from the R O C to the P R C. After all the R O C Govt was still a functioning Govt all the way up to 1972 when people switched recognition from ROC to the Separatist State known as the PRC. Is that not correct????

lotus999 SG

Originally posted by polau:
This may be out of [b] topic,

But do you guys aware of a principally china's forum?
There's this guy there called Yun, who happened to be a Singaporean Hainanese though he calimed himself as Shanghaiese.

Anyway just to take note that this guy actually support what he said.[/b]

They're probably the same person!

lotus999 SG

Oh yeah?

If you don't understand what others have written, your reply might make you look like a fool. And if you write in incoherent English, nobody will understand whatever great knowledge you might have.

sgdiehard SG

Sorry you don't understand my english, may be it is the same reason why I don't understand yours.

lotus999 SG

Hi pearli27

no point talking to him unless he goes for english remedial class.

cheers Wink

Gun SG

Originally posted by crazyazn:
The "Red Carpet" is just games played by the PRC. The CCP used to hate the KMT and the KMT used to hate the CCP equally before the Year 2000. Now they got a common adversary.

Adversary ? Who ? DPP being played out as the bogeyman ?
So why Ah Bian gave his blessing to his opposition for this HISTORIC visit ?
Is it abt political shrudness or pressure from some non-Asian entity besides Beijing ? (Hint: see next paragraph)
if this HISTORIC visit provides channels of dialogue and benefits the whole region ? Why not ?

They (KMT) were staunch Anti PRC and staunch Anti Communist.This has got nothing to do with the US.

The status of ROC has nothing to do with US ? You are kidding, aren't you ?
This island has EVERYTHING to do with US from historical to future directions. ROC not only serves US's regional interest, but also a strategic containment of an upcoming "stratagic competitor". And that , IMO, is an understatement of what Taiwan meant to Washington.

The PRC on the other hand is having fun trying to reduce Chen's influence by inviting the Opposition Leadership into the PRC and giving them First Class treatment that they dont get at home.

Was it "fun" when Ah Bian plays the tension-trigger in Asia ?

The Taiwanese people will not unify under the CCP by accepting the One China Policy.

what a sweeping statement. e'nuf said.

Gun SG

Originally posted by crazyazn:
How many of the Taiwanese "immigrants" Have sold out their Holdings here and moved to the PRC with their families and given up their Passports??

Nice to be patriotic. But more often then not, the heart or even the brain, gets overide by the desire of one's stomach. It s something like straight-laced Singapore gov suddenly turning to pole-dancers and Casinos (x2).

Is that not correct?

Gun SG

I'd tell that American that he is entitled to his opinion and remind him China was 'broken up' and re-united a few times long before the USA ever come into existence. Time will tell if "United" will disappear from this American continent.

Nothing is forever.

crazyazn SG

Was it "fun" when Ah Bian plays the tension-trigger in Asia ?

It is not a sweeping statement: The Taiwanese will not unify UNDER the CCP by accepting The One China Policy.

The only way for Hu to talk to Lien was with Lien accepting the OCP openly , which he did. That is good for the Taiwanese, now they know for certain that Lien is really a full time Mainlander.He spokeof his past in the PRC,His family in the PRC and only mentioned Taiwan when he had something to bitch about. What a shameless guy.He really does not give a hoot about the Taiwanese.

Blueray SG

Originally posted by crazyazn:

Here is something you must have read in the news papers last year:Sept 2004.
[b]C P C vows to uphold Marxism as guiding ideology .
http://www.beijingportal.com.cn/7838/2004/09/27/[email protected]

How many of the Taiwanese "immigrants" Have sold out their Holdings here and moved to the PRC with their families and given up their Passports?? They are not moving there because they hate Taiwan or Love the PRC,It's just business. People are only moving part of their business.Most of them still have the Head Offices here in Taiwan and the RnD Depts are also here.

Japanese,Koreans ,Singaporeans have also done the same in droves . Not blaming Ah Bian for that too are you??

Taiwan's trade surplus if not really accurate.Taiwan ships out raw material and components to the PRC. Taiwan is not shipping finished goods for the PRC market. It is assembled there and shipped out of the PRC to a third country WITHOUT it coming back here for reshipment therefore showing a surplus. The difference is shown elsewhere in the PRC books as an export figure for the PRC. Taiwanese factories employ more than 12 million Mainlanders.

I mentioned the consensus in another post.

The ROC constitution is outdated , created by the KMT , that reallly has to be changed in order to reflect the current situation. Read the 1991 ammendment to the Constitution: Everyone conveniently seems to forget to read that when talking about the ROC constitution.
"In the 1991 constitutional amendment, Article 10 of the Additional Articles (now Article 11) limits the area covered by the Constitution to that of the Taiwan area, and recognizes the legitimacy of the rule of the People's Republic of China on the Chinese mainland."

The ROC is not guilty of trying to Separate!!! The PRC separated from the ROC in 1949 when the changed the name of the terrority they held from the R O C to the P R C. After all the R O C Govt was still a functioning Govt all the way up to 1972 when people switched recognition from ROC to the Separatist State known as the PRC. Is that not correct????[/b]

Hi there,

I have been living in China for the past few years. I have met lots of Taiwanese who have come to the mainland for work. They told me that nowadays it is difficult to find work in Taiwan that they have to look elsewhere for work. Most of them told me that unless things change in Taiwan they plan to stay in the mainland for good. In fact there is a sharp increase in the number of Taiwanese buying houses in the mainland. Under Ah Bian's rule, Taiwanese unemployment rate, crime rate have indeed soared rapidly. Read this:

http://www.taiwanheadlines.gov.tw/20010510/20010510o1.html

More and more Taiwanese are losing confidence in the current administration and are migrating elsewhere. Here's the related article:

http://atimes.com/atimes/China/FF30Ad04.html

Money will always be a key driving factor of migration but there are many people who have migrated to China simply bcos they like the country. One good example is this American lady who prefers to live in the mainland despite the fact she could be making more $$$ elsewhere. Read her blog:

http://www.speakingofchina.com/journal/archives/000112.html

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