china attitude to japan

last SG · 2005-04-11T14:06:17+00:00

i beg to differ. as china grow they will feel a sense of superiority and invincibility. she will look down on everyone, not just singaporeans. china's econom...

Gun SG

Race ? Check fett's post again. Where was there ANY mentioned about race ?
Your dogmatic clinging to your skewed perception of this history has severely impede your ability to comprehend his argument.

I am not sretching this observation here, am I ?

robertteh SG

Can you see the issue actually arises from the Japanese race because the Japanese based on WWW II invasions of other Asian countries and other recent actions and conducts is a potential unrepentant aggressor. The Koreans are right in going to the streets to protest against Japanese's show of strengths in claiming sovereignty for those islands off Korean seas.

You mean you cannot see all these recent developments and you don't regard Japanese as the aggressors and potential aggressors when they are now re-asserting itself after recovering from the last war. Don't say you are not forewarned (unless connected in some ways) when they start attacking the Koreas or other Asian countries one more time?

dragg SG

Gun,

it is ok if you want to give an opinion but no personal attacks. we are not here for juvenile bickering. you cannot force your opinion on others. if you cannot control your emotions i suggest you stop posting, or at least stop commenting on my post. everybody is entitled to their opinion. your comment (Your dogmatic clinging to your skewed perception of this history has severely impede your ability to comprehend his argument) is totally uncalled for.

Fett posted 'i suggest you stop thinking as an outsider and start thinking in a Chinese perspective'

is 'start thinking in a chinese perspective' not race related?

dont jump to conclusion and start insulting people. obviously your emotions are getting the better of you.

this i believe answered your question of whether you are stretching your observation!!!

Gun SG

Again, you never cease to amazed me how you skirted around the key issues of latest tension while coming back to claim "meaningless" to read these facts .

Strangely, you share similar outlook as the authors of those Japanese textbooks. OMG ! Rolling Eyes

Have I stretch this analogy too far ?

sgdiehard SG

You are right on the dot on this issue!!

Is Japan still the country likely to revive its old ambition to invade others for its own nationalism?

Continue to pay respect to the war heros, including war criminals of WW2 in the shrine, and changing history text book to justify their invasion of China, Korea and other parts of asia, are the two clear indications that Japan is not at all remorseful for what they did during WW2.

Compare this with Germany, can you imagine a church or memorial hall built for all political leaders of Germany to pay respect to the Nazis or Hitler? I don't know about the German history text books but the Germans are accepted by its neighbours which they occupied during WW2 not only in Europe but also internationally. Are the Brits, the Dutch, the Flemish, the Austrian, the French, ...... more forgiving than the Chinese or the Koreans, or are they more forgetful about the history? No!!!! The German had come face to face to the crimes they committed.

The Japan has not learned and with the greater influence of the right-wing politicians and the rise of nationalism, they will only need to change their constitutions and they are ready to send troops overseas.

Beware!!!

sgdiehard SG

Can you justify your point, why is "china is the one that most probably will destabilised the region"? because it is really growing? has singapore not been growing in the last 20 years?

dragg SG

don't be another Gun. stick to the topic and no personal attacks. if you have read all my posting carefully you will know i am a singaporean chinese. relay your opinon without prejudice. it is not necessary to even hint that i am connected to the japanese in any way. it is a cheap shot.

LazerLordz SG

Sending their troops overseas is not the issue here.I'm all for Japan contributing her share in peacekeeping and humanitarian efforts, so I think it should not be dragged into the spat.

Now, the right-wing must be checked, because the rest of Japan can do far more good with the stuff they have than the former.

dragg SG

Gun,

do i have to explain to you all my posting? you made a mistake with your prior post. now you are making the same mistake again. which part of my post do you not understand?---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
reading the article wont change anybody's opinion. there is no doubt that japan is guilty of war crimes and denial of facts. we are not here to talk about this. asking people to read those articles is meaningless. who is blaming china for being angry?

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'there is no doubt that japan is guilty of war crimes and denial of facts' tells you i understand why china is angry. isn't reading the articles meaningless since i already understand and accepted their position?

Gun SG

Dear dragg,

I regret that you interpret some of my posting as a personnel attack. It is not.

If one finds my description of "dogmatic clinging to a skewed persception" too personal and hurtful for one's emotional well-being, then I strongly suggest he/she learn to consider the victims of Japanese aggressions feelings in comparison before saying "meaningless" to read these facts (of history).

enuf of above disclaimer, now, let me hear your reply to robertteh's post .

dragg SG

Singapore has indeed been growing in the last 20 years. but are we big and strong enough to wage a war against anyone? more importantly do anyone have the impression we are going in that direction? we are well known for being pragmatic. war is against our ideology. it is moot to take us as a comparison.

as for china there is no denying she wants to 'take back' taiwan. the anti-secession law is a good enough proof. a taiwan-china war will destabilised asia, if not the whole world.

sgdiehard SG

You are missing the point. Is is not the race perspective, it is the perspective of those who were invaded by Japan during WW2, the chinese, koreans,.......

Gun SG

[quote]Originally posted by dragg:
do i have to explain to you all my posting? you made a mistake with your prior post. now you are making the same mistake again. which part of my post do you not understand?

Thanks for re-phrasing your positon on this. But I note those re-phased 2nd edition reads differently from the 1st.

1st edition:
"reading the article wont change anybody's opinion. there is no doubt that japan is guilty of war crimes and denial of facts. we are not here to talk about this. asking people to read those articles is meaningless. who is blaming china for being angry?

2nd edition:
"there is no doubt that japan is guilty of war crimes and denial of facts' tells you i understand why china is angry. isn't reading the articles meaningless since i already understand and accepted their position?"

The 1st is describing a perception akin to those Japanese revisionist who believe any articles on WW2 are "meaningless".

The 2nd clearly expressively is your own opinion.
But WHAT hv you "already understand" ? How do you arrived at accepting the victim's position ?

In your earlier reply to miong (in 1st edition), the entire paragraph shows you simply don't care about his/her links and sharing of those facts.

And that is why I commented how both Japanese authors shares similar outlook as yours.

As u can see, careful literary expression is as important has any changes made within history books for today's students.

The Pen is Mightier than the Sword.
Japanese and Chinese (national) historians knows that very well. You should too.

sgdiehard SG

I too believe the Japanese can contribute very much for peacekeeping and humanitarian work worldwide. But the constitutions do specifically forbid sending of troops overseas and we need to be very careful when they change this part of the constitutions.

The German, after WW1 continued to feel their actions during the war were justified. German nationalism rose as they felt they were penalised and suffered economically though it is the great depression that hurt everybody. Finally, the Nazis Germany was strong enough to ignore the Treaty of Versailles and started sending troops into the Rhineland and there were no response from the other countries or they were incapable to stop them. World War 2 is now a history. But are there lessons to be learned?

What do the young japanese think about the war? if they were taught from young that they were justified in their actions in WW2, they will grow up thinking that they were unjustly criticised for ww2......respecting the war heros, rise of nationalism, greater influence of the right wing politicians,.....how to check and when will it come that there is nothing we can do?

Both Germany and Japan have become economic power after the war, but why is the former respected and the latter continued to be suspected by their respective neighbours?

Gun SG

dragg,

Suggest u read Fett post one more time and quote "Chinese" within its context. It is referring to nationality of China rather than ethnicity.

I agree with Fett observation that you are more prepared to see China as the bogeyman. Makes it even more revealing when you claim Japanese WW2 behavour towards her Asian communities is anything but racial. Where on-Earth had given u the impression of that ?

robertteh SG

Your postings on this topic seem to be very forgiving to what the Japanese have done in world war II and the recent spats with the Koreans.

You added a twist to the bias by saying that China is the threat. I don't understand your logic or facts that is all. I will refrain from any other comments and if anything is personal I will withdraw it as I have done in my amended post. Regards to all for a good and objective discussion on this issue. I am happy there are many here will still stand up for their rights if they have been hurt and are being threatened again.

sgdiehard SG

We are not big but we are strong. Are we strong enough? We made it known that our war will be a war of defence in enemy terrorities. and we are clear, that to protect our sovereignty and the lives of or love ones, we will fight whether we are strong enough or not. What do our neighbouring countries think about us is not an issue.

So what have china said about its military expansion? Taiwan said they wanted to take back mainland China since1949 and China wants to take back Taiwan since ah bian wants to declare independence. Is taking back Taiwan a war of expansion as a result of the growth in China?? It is the contrary in reality. The growth of China have so far brought about the economic growth in the region, it has narrow the gaps between the lives of people on both sides of the straits, making peaceful reconciliation more achievable. Unless and until ah bian declare Taiwan independence, China is not in a hurry to wage a war in Taiwan. There is no denial on the part of China and it is clear for the rest.

Will China- Taiwan war destablises asia, or the whole world? it depends, who else want to be involved. that is hypothetical and i will not dwell in it.

LazerLordz SG

Any war between China and Taiwan will bring us all in, especially the littoral states of the Malaccan Straits.

dragg SG

Originally posted by Gun:
[quote]Originally posted by dragg:
[b]do i have to explain to you all my posting? you made a mistake with your prior post. now you are making the same mistake again. which part of my post do you not understand?

Thanks for re-phrasing your positon on this. But I note those re-phased 2nd edition reads differently from the 1st.

1st edition:
"reading the article wont change anybody's opinion. there is no doubt that japan is guilty of war crimes and denial of facts. we are not here to talk about this. asking people to read those articles is meaningless. who is blaming china for being angry?

2nd edition:
"there is no doubt that japan is guilty of war crimes and denial of facts' tells you i understand why china is angry. isn't reading the articles meaningless since i already understand and accepted their position?"

The 1st is describing a perception akin to those Japanese revisionist who believe any articles on WW2 are "meaningless".

The 2nd clearly expressively is your own opinion.
But WHAT hv you "already understand" ? How do you arrived at accepting the victim's position ?

In your earlier reply to miong (in 1st edition), the entire paragraph shows you simply don't care about his/her links and sharing of those facts.

And that is why I commented how both Japanese authors shares similar outlook as yours.

As u can see, careful literary expression is as important has any changes made within history books for today's students.

The Pen is Mightier than the Sword.
Japanese and Chinese (national) historians knows that very well. You should too.

[/b]

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Originally posted by miong:
Go to these sites and read up the real issues of this whole episode.

Any wild personal speculations by anyone here would do no justice to the facts of the matter .

Can anyone really blame the Chinese for their anger against an unremorse and unapologetic Japan?

http://www.cnd.org/njmassacre/page1.html

http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/

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miong asked people to go to the site and read up on the real issues right?

then i replied

reading the article wont change anybody's opinion. there is no doubt that japan is guilty of war crimes and denial of facts. we are not here to talk about this. asking people to read those articles is meaningless. who is blaming china for being angry?

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you see the punctuation (full stop) after the word meaningless? 'who is blaming china for being angry?' is my reply to miong's question 'Can anyone really blame the Chinese for their anger against an unremorse and unapologetic Japan'

dragg SG

then agree all you want.

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