What So Big Deal About China

last SG · 2004-07-19T09:30:44+00:00

i think we singaporean should stop looking down on china. afterall we are chinese. it the china top foreign policy to uphold one china policy. let forget abo...

oldbreadstinks SG

Originally posted by creamtart:

[b]
Fans of the family argue that this concentration of power stems simply from its members' remarkable talent, not their connections. They claim the younger Mr Lee's rapid ascent through the ranks of the army to become a brigadier-general by the age of 32 rested purely on merit, as did his promotion to the post of deputy prime minister after only six years in politics.

The prime-minister-to-be certainly projects great intelligence and determination. He has survived a bout of cancer and stoically endured the death of his first wife. While in the army, he directed the dramatic rescue of passengers stranded in a disabled cable car. As finance minister, he has presided over a much-needed and much-delayed liberalisation of the financial sector. His father says that he would already be prime minister were it not for misplaced concerns about nepotism.

Laughing

Beijingduck SG

WELL... *BIG and STUPID and UNCIVILIZED china* is not supposed to be a conclusion for Chinese.

I don't know where u get this, but i could probably imagine how old u r.

Go back to kindergarden, darl. This forum is too close to the reality.

Think about Malaysia and singapore;
then malaysia and china;
Finally compare china and singapore.

U get a clearer conclusion now, BRO? Laughing

StMichael SG

Uh...the Chinese were invaded by the Mongolians during the tail end of the Song dynasty. The Mongolians then took over the Chinese system of government and formed the Yuan dynasty (that was when Marco Polo came). The local Han Chinese overthrew the Mongolians and formed the Ming dynasty. The Manchurians came in at the tail end of the Ming dynasty and formed the Qing dynasty.

SibeiSuayKia SG

Haha i only hate the time when chinese kana bully
by JAPANESE, BRITISH, GERMANS , ITALY AND LOST ALOT OF AREA
LOST HONG KONG AND MACAU
due to the weakness of the emperor!

China's population at that time so huge
and officials all smoking opium
and some racism occur in own country!

Blueray SG

The past is irrelevant when compared to the present and future. Currently china is playing an important rule by driving economic growth around asia. It is one of the most influential countries in the world along with the US, Japan and germany. Like my lecturer said if the Chinese economy sweats, asia will kanna heatstroke.

j28w32 SG

just a silly question. what is the meaning of “kana”? mind giving me an answer?

Blueray SG

In this case it means to be infected with an illness.

comacoma SG

I am a citizen of PRC. This topic interests me. In China nowadays, ADSL, broadband and BBS are part of people's life, and we spend a lot of time lingering in our favorite forums. Yes Chinese government controls the access to foreign media including websites such as CNN and forbides private installing of satellite TV equipment. You can watch CNN news only in three-star hotel or above. But you know anybody with some experience of internet know how to use proxies.

People in mainland China only know general information about Singapore. To many, she is a city state with an area less than Hong Kong, and keeps a busthling economy. Singapore investment in China is not big and noisy enough to raise our attention. Before Li HianLong's visit of Taiwan, many people thinks Singapore government is pro-PRC instead of pro-Taiwan. Some liberalists in our forums attacks Singapore as a dictatorship that appeases the Chinese government. Now I read some posts about Singapore, accusing her two-face agitating in ASEAN over Na Shan Islands (or the Spratly islands), her yearly exercise with 4 nations against "submarines from northern socialist big nation", her eagerness to drag US military force based in her port, the ex-PM Mr. Wu's call for abandoning mainland China when the Chinese government was fighting against SARS, the unspoken support of Taiwan independence (?), against her weird arrogance over mainland Chinese developed from decades of white man's colonist rule.

Unfortunately, after reading the posts here, I found some Singaporean does inclines to Taiwan independence. I understand in international relations, interests and economic/military power talk. I understand the small state of Singapore has interests in the careful balance caculation between mainland China, US, Malaysia and Taiwan.

To Chinese government and many Chinese like me, Taiwan is a spike in China's ecological circle of national security. Its independence and hostile existence blocks China's outlet to ocean and threats China's energy import line. The pity of Taiwan separatists is being two close to mainland. If Singapore is that close to mainland China, I cannot imagine how can you achieve independence.

I have said all I want to say. As individual, Chinese are multitude of grey profiles, but as a nation it has mighty demand and force. China is changing. I hope it will become democratic politically and respect rule of law. However, that does not mean a democratic China will tolerate the independence of Taiwan. When you bet US and Chinese market, I understand. When bet Taiwan independence...

stupidissmart SG

To Chinese government and many Chinese like me, Taiwan is a spike in China's ecological circle of national security. Its independence and hostile existence blocks China's outlet to ocean and threats China's energy import line. The pity of Taiwan separatists is being two close to mainland. If Singapore is that close to mainland China, I cannot imagine how can you achieve independence.

I don't know man... vietnam is also close to china if I am not wrong.. so does north korea and lot of other countries. Even Nepal is seperated from china by the himalayas. If just because a country is close to china gives justification for war, then slowly china can swallow up the whole world. They can attck taiwan, vietnam, korea, nepal, russia and after tat they can attack hawaii, laos, middle east, europe and so on and so forth since the newly acquired country adds to the perimeter of china.

If one justify the reason for war just because conquring it will make its own country richer or better, than we r really going back to the 17 century where there r such a post called minister of war and people launch war so they can get some benefits from it. Japanese is right to attack China u know, they want to get its resources and its path toward the mainland. When the 8 nations united to fight china, they r right too as they get to profit from it and force china to open out its port. In tat case maybe US is right when it fight Iraq so tat they can get to control its oil. Heck, maybe malaysia is right to attack singpore in future as they can utilise our island for a port. Wat happend to international law and order, justice and freedom ?

BTW the official stand from our politicians maintain the one china policy. The views of the people here remains much individual views.

stupidissmart SG

Talking about bad policies or unfriendiness, china doesn’t really lose to anyone… Shrek 2 is banned, tiananmen incident, falungong, poisonous baby powder etc… every country has its ugly side, and singapore is not necessary the ugliest…

loudmonkey SG

I agree with comacoma that Taiwan is indeed a thorn in China's flesh. Though there is no war now, technically they are still at civil war, probably similar to the situation in North and South Korea. Being in a civil war, unless ROC is conquered, there is little that the PRC can do to try to curb its influence.

Nobody wants a war. If there is a war, Singapore should stay neutral, and be like the Swiss during the two world wars, since both ROC and PRC are friends to Singapore. Singapore must not side with either side, and also should not grant the US usage of Changi base to help the Taiwanese.

Consider this: the disruptions in exchanges between PRC and Singapore are really insignificant. They will resume with time. These "threats" do not do permanent damage.

Ours is really unlike US-Sino ties. China has so much more to be angry with the US, especially with the plan to sell advanced weapons to Taiwan, and the strong influence of the Taiwan lobby in Washington. Those actions hurt China's "core interests" much much much more, more than LHL's visit to Taiwan. It is indeed worrying that from what LHL said, the Taiwanese do believe that should war break out, the US will come into the picture. LHL's assessment of the "taiwan problem" is indeed bleak.

Furthermore, Singapore has a Chinese majority in its population, with its top leader of Chinese descent. In fact, we are the only country to have a PM who has Chinese roots. Naturally the PM, being Chinese by race, must understand chinese culture and values, including the concepts of giving face, maintaining guan xi, keeping bad news within the family (remember the SARS episode) and all the rest of the social norms. Which is why there is now an emphasis of trying to groom bicultural elites? China's actions will affect Singapore, we are too small to be unswayed by it.

oldbreadstinks SG

shrek 2 was banned?? why? Surprised

and btw i don't think the baby powder was poisonous, it just doesn't have enough nutrients, hence the babies dying
though that was pretty bad too

LazerLordz SG

Well, congratulations on finding your way to our humble forums.I agree with you that China is changing and it should respect the rule of law.But there's one thing I fail to understand, and that is why you guys consider Taiwan such a threat?From what I can see, Taiwan sees you as a threat and vice-versa.Our relations with Taiwan go back a long way, after all , they did help us when we needed help in securing our own survival.As a Chinese, you would be able to appreciate what it means by giving thanks to those who have helped you and honoring them.What we have done is to maintain a balance of relations and ties.While realising that China is recognised by the UN as of this moment, we accord your government the respect it needs.We will equally respect Taiwan as an independant economic entity and remember her for the assistance rendered to us.China never lifted a finger to help us when we were in need, therefore we brook no more towards China than basic international courtesy, which is based on the principle of mutual interest.Our sovereignty and reputation will inevitably take precedence over your "unfinished business" with Taiwan, since you do not consider Taiwan to be a political entity by itself.We nay be small and insignificant to your eyes but since your government chose to portray us like some big , bad villain threatening to steal from you, I must say that we have already been quite accomodating already.

I really hope that a democratic, peaceful and reasonable China emerges from this troubling adolescence.

LazerLordz SG

Originally posted by loudmonkey:
I agree with comacoma that Taiwan is indeed a thorn in China's flesh. Though there is no war now, technically they are still at civil war, probably similar to the situation in North and South Korea. Being in a civil war, unless ROC is conquered, there is little that the PRC can do to try to curb its influence.

Nobody wants a war. If there is a war, Singapore should stay neutral, and be like the Swiss during the two world wars, since both ROC and PRC are friends to Singapore. Singapore must not side with either side, and also should not grant the US usage of Changi base to help the Taiwanese.

Consider this: the disruptions in exchanges between PRC and Singapore are really insignificant. They will resume with time. These "threats" do not do permanent damage.

Ours is really unlike US-Sino ties. China has so much more to be angry with the US, especially with the plan to sell advanced weapons to Taiwan, and the strong influence of the Taiwan lobby in Washington. Those actions hurt China's "core interests" much much much more, more than LHL's visit to Taiwan. It is indeed worrying that from what LHL said, the Taiwanese do believe that should war break out, the US will come into the picture. LHL's assessment of the "taiwan problem" is indeed bleak.

[b]Furthermore, Singapore has a Chinese majority in its population, with its top leader of Chinese descent. In fact, we are the only country to have a PM who has Chinese roots. Naturally the PM, being Chinese by race, must understand chinese culture and values, including the concepts of giving face, maintaining guan xi, keeping bad news within the family (remember the SARS episode) and all the rest of the social norms. Which is why there is now an emphasis of trying to groom bicultural elites? China's actions will affect Singapore, we are too small to be unswayed by it.

[/b]

Thats using the presumptious argument that ethnicity must equal to similar cultural outlook.I posted something about that somewhere.Gotta dig it up yeah. Twisted Evil

loudmonkey SG

Democracy may or may not come to China, but China should always be peaceful and reasonable. That I agree.

Taiwan I guess is "unfinished business" because if Taiwan continues to exist, there will always be the problem of 2 Chinas, which is itself an ideological THREAT to the fact that there must and should only be one China. There cannot be 2 "middle kingdoms". Independence of Taiwan is therefore unacceptable to PRC, and is a matter of principle and national pride to the government in the PRC. Not only would there be a severe loss of face by China if Taiwan becomes independent, it would mean the breakdown of the fundemental chinese identity of a common people, common values and common social norm, none of which the govt in Beijing is willing to accept.

loudmonkey SG

Yes that presumption can be false I agree, but I believe there is also merit in that presumption. Perhaps you might like to give me the link to the argument.

In any case, the issue of ethnicity really cannot be overlooked, since the singapore govt want close and good relations with china, and they vice versa. We have certain expectations of the Chinese, and they have certain expectations of us. Skin colour and language will still play a significant part in our dealings with China, and this, we must admit, will give chinese singaporeans a much bigger advantage over other nationalities.

My example to support this position is the attempt by the govt to inculcate bicultural elites. I believe this move is spearheaded by economic and strategic needs by Singapore into the future more than anything else. To give these people an appreciation and understanding of the cultural outlook of China is probably something that is necessary. In fact, anyone wanting to have some business done in China should necessarily know about the cultural outlook of the country.

creamtart SG

In my understanding, the case of TW is completely different from that of Vietnam, North Korea, Nepal, etc. TW has historically, culturally, politically, and geographically been part of China. Even it broke off from the mainland due to civil wars in 1940s, it had been acknowledged to be Chinese and part of China(as about this point, even Jiang Kashi and his son did not deny it). From this point of view, though the Jiangs were anti-communism, they were still strongly petriotic in saying that they were Chinese, TW was Chinese and TW was part of China.

But about the current TW, Li Denghui and Chen Shuibian have defiantly deviated from the policy, and thus betrayed TW and China. What is more, in order to get TW seperated from China, they are even licking the ass of America and Japan to trade for support from the two. In this sense, Li and Chen are traitors, not only to China as a nation, but also to the Jiangs.

As a Chinese, I dont think conquering TW will make mainland China richer and better. On a contrary, I believe many Chinese dont wish to see war break out between the two sides. After all, people on both sides of the straits are Chinese, so why to bother hurting the other? Besides, China are currently in a crucial period of economic development, therefore why to sacrifice what we have gained so strenuously in the past- 20 years for a war? ----- Despite these, i can tell you if the TW traitors acturally do something to seperate TW from China, then the mainland will have to fight back. The war is about national dignity, about the interests of China to be a sovereign country, and about China's chance of future development. That is the plain fact, and I wish Singaporians will undertand it.

creamtart SG

So, can u understand that Mainland China's sovereignty and reputation will also inevitably take the precedence when your PM visited TW and hurt China?

oldbreadstinks SG

i do not know what policy you're talking about, but i do not consider Li and Chen as traitors,
firstly they do not consider themselves as citizens of PRC
secondly they're not serving the Jiangs
thirdly (giving them the benefit of doubt)their actions seem to be pro taiwan

i find china's actions concerning taiwan silly and immature, if you're already considering war on them, why the hell would you still care about whether they're declaring independence or not, since you're going to blow them up anyway, are you saying a law set up by the taiwanese is going to stop the chinese army?

the un has already recognised the one china policy, even if its only in name, its still enough to make any moves china seeking to undertake "legal "

after all this, all thats left is to reach out and grab taiwan back , not too hard since you've already had a deadline to keep

and lastly , please stop calling us "Singaporians"
i don't know about the rest of them , but i'm annoyed by that

creamtart SG

The current Mainland China is not as ideology-centred as you think, nor is it so idealistic. The whole story about TW is fundamentally concerning nantional sovereignty and interests, just the same as Singapore must safeguard its own sovereignty and interests.

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